Talk:Konstantine

Á true song of love betrayal and lust for the pureness of one girl. The song's longstanding reputation as Something Corporate's greatest song is not unfounded. Yet because of its solitarity as a mainsteam band's indi song the very long song it it wont be on many radio stations. All in all the poetic song they have written with such popular lines as, "Confusion with a 'K'" and masterfull lyrics that seemingly tranquilize the distrout of the situation that it is come together in a rythmic 'last chance for love' song.

Tom- ['CCStukel' from yahoo]

This article was nominated for deletion on December 22, 2005. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

— JIP | Talk 06:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cleanup needed

This article needs a complete rewrite/clean up to take care of all the issues raised at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Konstantine: It is "Poorly written," biased, self-contradictory, unreferenced, and full of weasel words. Also, a proper template for the infobox should be used.

In accordance with Wiki guidelines (see WP:V) I also removed the following text from the article, until it can be confirmed:

"A general meaning of the term came into common usage as a result of its popularity. In rock popular culture, a konstantine is someone, usually a girl, whom a person loves unconditionally. Despite "Konstantine" being released first, it is reputed as the modern rock equivalent of the R&B "My Boo," where boo is a synonym for konstantine. Both songs contain the line, "You will always be my konstantine [boo].""

This paragraph even contradicts the rest of the article (where it's claimed that the song is unknown) and I doubt anybody will find reliable sources for this. --Fritz S. (Talk) 11:51, 3 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Also, rumors seem to favor the reason for the break-up not as Andrew's time on the road taking a toll on the relationship, but as him cheating on her while drunk at a party, for which she never forgave him.

"The song is relatively unknown": Firstly, relative to what? Their other songs? This was the first Something Corporate song I ever heard and many of my friends, none of whom are avid SC fans, know of it. I will start the clean-up process. However, I fear that if we remove all the parts of the article which deserve no place in Wikipedia, we may be left with very little of the article left. However, a lack of consensus has determined that we should keep and not delete it so I will try and clean it up as much as possible. --TDE 13:41, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Here is what I have changed:

Removed: "The song is relatively unknown, largely because it has not been released locally to the brunt of the band's fanbase."
Removed: "- one reason for the lack of consensus on lyrics)."
Moved: "The song has been thoroughly discussed in attempts to determine the meaning, however neither McMahon, nor any other member of the band, will neither confirm nor deny any reports." higher in article to demonstate the theoretical status of the next paragraph
Rewrote Sentence to now read: "One theory holds that McMahon wrote "Konstantine" about his ex-girlfriend Krystal, an unusual spelling which leads to 'Konstantine' instead of 'Constantine' and the line "I can spell Konfusion with a 'k'".". Still needs work.
Removed: "McMahon refers to her as Konstantine because before their break-up she was the only constant in his life."
Removed highly speculative: "They broke up because Andrew's travels with the band became too much for the relationship. But Andrew eventually realized that he wanted her. Too late, the revelation came, and she no longer wanted him. Heartbroken, Andrew took to his music and "Konstantine" was the result. It was originally Josh's idea to play the song in concert and have it recorded.".

The article is now severly reduced in length. Hopefully it can be bolstered with some citable facts.

--TDE 13:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I have now removed the last of the speculative material (correct me if I'm wrong). Hence, I am removing the 'Unverified Claims' plate. TDE 20:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Original research

The problem seems to be not that the claims are unverifiable, because one can play the album and hear the song. The problem seems to be that this whole article is fan original research. See Wikipedia:No original research. Where are the citations? Bejnar 18:20, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Merge with Something Corporate

Why would it not be appropriate to merge the remaining material with the article Something Corporate, that is, if there is any material here that is "facts, opinions, interpretations, definitions, and arguments" that have "already have been published by a reliable publication in relation to the topic of the article." (Quoting Wikipedia:No original research.) Bejnar 18:20, 15 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

No one having objected to the merger, all the reliable publuished information has been transferred to and merged with Something Corporate, Ready... Break, Welcome to the Family), Songs for Silent Movies and Live at the Ventura Theater. --Bejnar (talk) 20:02, 19 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But why does it redirect to Welcome to the Family? I personally think it should redirect to Something Corporate because Welcome to the Family has less relevance or relation to Konstantine. 74.163.136.164 (talk) 00:59, 9 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

Note that the question is not whether the fact is true, but whether it is a published fact. Finding facts other than from published sources is original research. For example, listening to Konstantine and identifying that Jimmy Eat World is mentioned is original research. Finding a reliable article about Konstantine that mentions the connection to Jimmy Eat World and why it is important, would allow the editor to provide a citation for that fact. --Bejnar 16:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I totally agree with you Bejnar, and this article is especially seeded with OR and weasel words, but in this instance I think we shouldn't be all that strict. I mean, the lyrics include "It's to Jimmy Eat World and those nights in my car", and if we could link to lyric websites that would certainly qualify as a source, but since we can't... Even though I think this subject doesn't really deserve an article (none of the band's singles have one), if the rest of it is kept, by strict definition "It focuses heavily on the piano, although several other instruments, including a bass guitar, an organ and the triangle, are used as well." is OR as well. --HarryCane 17:33, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Like the rest of the article, the material added by IP editor 99.253.34.212 on 6 November 2007, is unsourced. --Bejnar 19:31, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]