Talk:Kociewie

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Kociewians (name)

As I just noted at WT:POLAND, I cannot confirm that such a name exists in English literature. The ethnic group is arguably notable (pl:Kociewiacy) but it does not seem to have an English name outside repeating of the Polish term (Kociewiacy). We should create a dedicated article about it (copying and expanding what we have here), but the name should be Kociewiacy, not Kociewians. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:13, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I completely agree with this - the article will need to be called Kociewiacy rather than Kociewian. Wikociewie (talk) 09:06, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I have now found the term 'Kociewian' in use on the website of the Kociewskie Centrum Kultury. Wikociewie (talk) 19:46, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Right, the adjective may be used, but the question is whether the noun Kociewians is used anywhere? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:38, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I put 'Kociewian' through JStor's search bar and managed to find what may be a lone example of the term being used as noun in a paper titled 'Self-Identification Structure in Opole Silesia and the Kashubia: A Comparative Analysis' by Jacek Kurczewski. Unfortunately I can't access the paper so can't check for sure. Wikociewie (talk) 11:41, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Wikociewie Try Google Scholar next time, I get two working links: [1]. (And if that fails, try Library Genesis next). The term is used in the table. I guess that's enough to warrant mentioning it in Wikipedia. WP:USEENG vs WP:COMMONNAME is an issue, but as Nihil novi notes below, common sense does suggest using the English term... _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:30, 23 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Okay so I've created a Kociewians draft and plonked in a couple of sections. I'm thinking the section on Culture in the Kociewie article could be merged into it and a section on language added? I've also started working on a history section to add to the Kociewie page. Wikociewie (talk) 11:41, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Wikociewie Excellent progress. Looks good, just add more detail to the first two refs that look identical. When you are ready, I recommend WP:DYK - let me know if you need assistance with this process. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 23:12, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Piotrus:So I've finally got around to creating the new Kociewians page - I moved a lot of content over so this page now needs a lot more work on it which I'll start on next! Please let me know what you think!? Wikociewie (talk) 18:22, 22 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Wikociewie Looks good - I've fixed the interwikis. Thank you _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 04:45, 23 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

PS. This may be the case of a topic that is simply not covered in English, waiting for a scholar to publish something in an English-language academic journal (or even a Polish, with an English abstract). See also WP:ENGLISHTITLE. Common sense, sure, Kociewians is likely how this should be rendered in English (I'll ping User:Nihil novi for a WP:3O), but WP:OR cautions us against doing this ourselves (further considerations: WP:TRANSCRIPTION, WP:RSUEQ). _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 01:41, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please see https://globecraftmc.fandom.com/wiki/Kociewian_Language

"Kociewian (pol./koc. Kociewski) is a language spoken in Kociewie by Kociewians. It's a Lechitic language developed from Polish."

Here you have Kowiecian as both adjective and noun. (Analogously, for example, so is "American".)

What is this source, Globecraft Wiki?

Nihil novi (talk) 03:17, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunatley, that's not a reliable source, just some fan wiki with lower quality standards than Wikipedia... _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 03:24, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you hew to the original Polish Kociewiacy, are you, for grammatical consistency, going to use the Polish gender distinctions -- Kociewiak, Kociewianka -- and perhaps also Polish noun declension ... ?

Nihil novi (talk) 03:42, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No good choice eh... _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 09:39, 22 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]