Talk:Klaus Fuchs/Archives/2020

Birth name

The article's statement of Fuchs' full birth name has yo-yoed between "Klaus Emil Julius Fuchs" and "Emil Julius Klaus Fuchs", though it has been consistent in referring to the the accepted common name "Klaus Fuchs". It began with EJKF and was first changed by an IP, without explanation, to KEJF here. This was reverted by Hawkeye7 here, referenced from ONDB, noting "Fuchs was always known by his last given name, Klaus". Subsequent reversions by PeerBaba (partial, without explanation) here, Hawkeye here, GeeGee here (citing ONDB), and myself here. I reverted on the basis that ONDB's "Fuchs, (Emil Julius) Klaus" was their normal way of indicating that although it was not his first given name, he was known as Klaus. Such practice is not uncommon where father and son have a common first name.

Now I have a long message from GeeGee on my talk page (collapsed below). Although clearly not understanding the reason for my revert, GeeGee has now provided here a single, but reliable, source for KEJF from the German National Library. Both versions get significant citations in, for example, Google Books, but I was struck by this snippet which offers an explanation if reliable. I am not at all an expert on Fuchs, so would prefer to leave this for editors who are.

Extended content

The stated full name in the Klaus Fuchs article is wrong. Fuchs' full name was Klaus Emil Julius Fuchs, not Emil Julius Klaus Fuchs. In Germany, just like in quite a few other countries, middle names are often given to remember or honor relatives, in many cases to honor grandparents or parents. Klaus' father was Emil Fuchs, and Klaus was given the middle names Emil and Julius. In the German culture, persons with middle names then usually don't use their middle names for signatures on contracts or official papers (forms/applications), book title pages or scientific works (ie. for the indication of the authorship) etc., they usually just use their first names and their surnames. You will then find their full names only in German birth certificates and in German passports/IDs (if they are still German citizens). In official documents and on contracts, only the first Christian name (1st position) is legally relevant. Emil had 4 children: Elisabeth, Gerhard, Klaus and Christel (the name is misspelled in the article, most likely, "Kristel" is a very rare spelling, as Christel derives from the German name Christine; the spelling Kristel got somewhat more common in the 1930s, but Christel was born in 1913; the name Kristel became a bit more common in the Netherlands during the 1970s, and decades later in Estonia and the Flamish part of Belgium; 1 of 100,000 children are given the name Kristel in Germany - extremely rare spelling nowadays, and a rather rare spelling in the early 1910s for sure; 2 of 10,000 are given the name Christel, nowadays - just to give you an idea). The nephew of Klaus Fuchs, Klaus Fuchs-Kittowski, a computer scientist and science philosopher, issued conference proceedings under the title "Ethik in der Wissenschaft - die Verantwortung der Wissenschaftler" (= Ethics in Sciene - The responsibility of Scientists) in 2008, "in remembrance of Klaus Fuchs." The only topic: Klaus Fuchs. The conference was organized by The Leibniz Society of Sciences to Berlin e.V. (Founded 1700 as Brandenburg Society of Sciences), partially held in German and partially held in English. The papers, the participants (including his newphew) and the speeches all referred to the physicist Klaus Fuchs, since there was no physicist Emil Fuchs. A similar conference was held in 2011 (in Berlin as well). The table of contents of the 2008 conference displays that Klaus Fuchs (along with ethical and historical assessments related to his works/behavior) was the only topic.[1] The father of Klaus Fuchs, Emil Fuchs, published his autobiography in 1957 (Leipzig), and referred to his 2 sons as Klaus and Gerhard. The German National Library lists Klaus Fuchs with his middle names under "other names": First name - Klaus Middle names - Emil Julius Surname - Fuchs. The library's "name" entry (means without middle names or aliases) indicates "Klaus Fuchs", which is correct.[2] Historian, author and journalist Dr. Ronald Friedmann published a Kurt Fuchs biography in 2006: "Klaus Fuchs. Der Mann der kein Spion war" (2006). He specializes in research about communists, as he is a member of the Historical Commission of the democratic socialist political party "Die Linke", which is - through its predecessor PDS - a direct descendent of the Marxist-Leninist ruling party of the former East Germany (GDR), the Socialist Unity Party of Germany (SED). As a member of the commission, he has direct access to the party's archives. Since Klaus Fuchs relocated to the GDR in 1959 - where he then worked as nuclear physicist, the party's archive has plenty of original material about Klaus Fuchs. The German Stasi Records Agency also holds documents about Klaus Fuchs, which were created by the Ministry of State Security (Stasi) and which can be viewed by historians. He lists his book publications in his CV on his homepage: [3] Klaus is his first name/Christian name, NOT Emil. German historians (and generally scientists), authors of biographies and even his nephew refer to the well known physicist as Klaus Fuchs, not Emil Fuchs (his father), the name Klaus (along with the middle names Emil + Julius) Fuchs is well established in the German-speaking sphere. Whover came up with the wrong first name, got it utterly wrong. I don't see why the correct indication of the full name had to be reverted GeeGee (talk) 05:49, 16 May 2020 (UTC) https://portal.dnb.de/opac.htm?query=idn%3D118953273&method=simpleSearch&cqlMode=true https://portal.dnb.de/opac.htm?method=simpleSearch&cqlMode=true&query=nid%3D118953273 https://www.ronald-friedmann.de/lebensdaten/

Davidships (talk) 11:21, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Davidships and GeeGee for your painstaking research. I have corrected the article. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:38, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Much appreciated, Hawkeye7. Would it be best to have a footnote from the initial name, noting and explaining the discrepancy, particularly in British/American sources, and for those that arrive on this page from the EJKF redirect. I wonder whether one or other of the already-cited books touch on this matter (Nancy Greenspan is cited, but from a different book, and the snippet I found seems to follow on from something on the non-available p200). Davidships (talk) 22:21, 16 May 2020 (UTC) PS - the infobox!

Corrected the infobox too. I'll take action to correct the ODNB. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 23:20, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

What's the explanation in the snippet? Looks like the read limit for that preview has been reached. And thanks for the quick reaction, Davidships. And yes, you are right, the revert puzzled me for a bit, as noone in Germany - in historical science or journalism - ever refers to him as Emil Fuchs, and even authors of newspaper articles in the 70s/80s clearly put Klaus in front, if they provided all 3 names. I do appreciate that the EN wiki puts the focus/more pressure on finding reliable sources, though, the German wiki entry for Fuchs does not provide a clear source for the name order, for instance. GeeGee (talk) 03:40, 17 May 2020 (UTC)