Talk:Kingdom of Kaimana

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	This article was accepted from this draft on 4 June 2021 by reviewer Nyanardsan (talk · contribs).

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Flag

@JassenMarang17: Hi, i've seen you are the creator of the flag's image. Can you confirm or do you have any reliable source to support that it's actually the state for subject of this article? Thank you Nyanardsan (talk) 13:05, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I found it was from the excerpt from Renaisance Nusantara Edisi Raja Sran Kaimana VIII, 2009, Badan silaturahmi Nasional Raja dan Sultan Nusantara. While I can't find the whole source either a book or conference, I found this was cited by other multiple authors on the matter. Some content from it like the flag (not used by some authors) can be found in a 2009 blog which in the past seemed to be run by descendant of the family themselves. Although it does possibly contain some conflicting informations on family lines.

- Ade aria way ( who converted to Samay) which by Wanggai dates to be between 1460-1541 was credited to be the first muslim using that same 2009 source. But the family tree listed Samay as ancestor of Imaga which by Usmany 2014 dated to be 1309. It could be there was another Samay which was one of the three unknown Adi rulers after Woran who converted. The current Aituarauw line is clear after Nduvin however.

-It also listed Muhammad Iwawusa as the son of Naro'e as the fifth king. But no mention of him and the dates suggests some researcher to be Naro'e or he ruled as raja muda (can be considered regency when naroe not rulling directly after 1912), hence not listed and suceeded by his brother Ahmad Aituarauw.

http://aituarauw-kaimana.blogspot.com/2009/03/pasang-surut-para-raja-kaimana.html?m=1

Talking about flag, from here apparently there was also another version with the description: red, white, and black, and 2 dogs raising a key with a sun background. The symbol of the kingdom was also apparently two white and red standing crocodiles.

I'm hesitant to add informations from the blog but it does seem genuine, with many private photos and informations. What do you think?

Envapid (talk) 19:53, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Envapid Im leaning towards still not putting it, since the source isnt exactly WP:RS and we cant really confirm if its either the actual royal family or no. Even if it is, its not our job to judge things like that since that would probably constitute as WP:OR, so I think its better to not put any flag. Nyanardsan (talk) 20:46, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

However if you insist, we can bring this discussion to WP:Indonesia or WP:Heraldry and vexillology, I will be happy to assist. Nyanardsan (talk) 20:48, 21 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Nyanardsan Hi, yeah we should bring these discussions to WP:Indonesia maybe some have more information, especially on source from Badan silaturahmi Nasional Raja dan Sultan Nusantara, and informations from the blog. I've added it in the source of the image, but we can remove the flag from the page for now. Envapid (talk) 01:59, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]