Talk:Keyboard suite in D minor (HWV 437)

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Sarabande sub page

If a separate article is to be created for the Sarabande, please consider calling the page something like Sarabande from suite in D minor, HWV 437. HWV258 07:53, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Title

I think the title for this page should use the word "minor" without a capital: "Keyboard suite in D minor (HWV 437)". Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:31, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Apologies. HWV258 21:19, 8 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Table?

The tables look great for longer lists, but here it looks too excessive... even constricting. I don't have any place to add information about one of the movements. I'd like to change this to a bulleted list like everything other multi-movement composition on wikipedia. There's a similar issue with The Alchemist (Handel).DavidRF (talk) 04:47, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Before you do, please remember that there are techniques to get around your problem:

You can enter information into the Notes column—(for small to medium amounts of information).
You can create a row under each movement that spans columns (colspan)—(for wider information).
You can create sections under the summary table to elaborate on individual movements—(for larger amounts of information).

If lots of information is to be posted, I would lean towards the last of those suggestions. The use of a table to list movements is used in many, many pages on musical works—so far, with success. A problem with a bulleted list is that the movement information gets spread further and further apart as more and more information is added for a movement over time. HWV258 05:38, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Could you post the additions you wish to make (either on the main page, or here, or on a sub-page)? I hope I didn't put you off adding information, and there is probably a good case for making the change you first suggested. HWV258 21:54, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

No worries. I'm at work right now so I haven't had time to edit. Got to pay the bills. :-) As for the tables, I like them when they have a lot of columns but this is just a five movement piece which ends up being on the same scale of movement lists for symphonies, quartets, piano sonatas... none of which I've seen use the tables. What is "Grove Ref" by the way? DavidRF (talk) 23:33, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Personally, I still like the conciseness of a small table (in its ability to quickly impart salient information to the reader). For that reason, I would not judge it based on it's bigger cousins. I guess I'm thinking about the different class of WP reader, in that there may be people who need to quickly check something, yet may be put off by looking through lots of paragraphs (should that ever happen).

The "Grove ref" contains the numbering that has always been used in the Grove Dictionary to refer to individual movements of Handel's solo keyboard works. The movement numbering is still used in the latest edition (which also contains the HWV numbering), but would be helpful on WP to anyone still unlucky enough to only have access to an older edition of Grove (such as my local library). HWV258 00:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Have you read many symphony, quartet or sonata articles? The movement list is usually clear as day in a bulleted list near the top of the article. Not buried in text at all. I feel like you are arguing against something that doesn't exist. Anyhow, these table are unintelligible from the editor's stand point. I think the notes column should be completely removed and replaced with text below this list, but whatever. I'll put my suggested changes in a section below.DavidRF (talk) 07:48, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed additions

Most of the information in the next two sentences are in the note in the table, but I thought it was helpful to point out what genre each of the HWV numbers refer to and its also important to note that the prelude is "optional".

Many performances and recordings of the suite omit the prelude, playing only the remaining four Froberger Suite form dance movements. The prelude is similar to the prelude of another D minor suite (HWV 428) and also exists as a standalone keyboard piece (HWV 561).

Here's a tidbit on the sarabande:

The sarabande movement is very similar in character to another sarabande, La Folia, the famous anonymous Spanish melody. Handel's melody is not strictly a "Folia" as it follows a different chord progression:

Handel:

/dm___ /A7___ /F___ /C___ /gm__ /dm__ /gm___ /A7___ /

/dm___ /A7___ /F___ /C___ /gm__ /F___ /gm A7__/dm___ /

Folia:

/dm___ /A7___ /dm__ /C___ /F___ /C___ /dm___ /A7___ /

/dm___ /A7___ /dm__ /C___ /F___ /C___ /dm A7__/dm___ /

but there are similarities in the two chord progressions (first two chords, phrase endings) that give Handel's work a "folia-like" feel. Some have called this sarabande "Handel's Folia".^[1]

DavidRF (talk) 07:48, 17 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ http://www.folias.nl/htmlsimilar.html

Almira

It should be noted that at least the Sarabande also appears in the opera Almira. The opera version is also much closer to the version used in the "Barry Lyndon" movie. There are probably more similarities with the opera. Both pieces were composed around the same time.--62.226.241.149 (talk) 21:50, 30 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttp://www.folias.nl/htmlsimilar.html

[1]