Talk:Kaunakes

Kaunakes was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
August 30, 2016	Good article nominee	Listed
August 31, 2016	Good article reassessment	Delisted

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on December 28, 2015.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the shorter the kaunakes (pictured), the lower the status?

Current status: Delisted good article

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GA delisted

This really isn't of GA quality. For starters, it is often given as "kaunakès", not "kaunakes", and the accented version should at the very least be mentioned. Second: "Greek for "thick cloak""? This source claims that it is Greek for "fleece". And this claims that it is Iranian for "hairy".

"also known as persis" This isn't sourced or explained further in the article, even though it sheds an interesting light on it (i.e the Greeks were well aware of the regional origin of the garment).

"which was worn during the Sumerian civilization around 2,500 BC." (still from the very first line of the article!). Well, it may have been first worn then, but it was worn for ages and ages, at least until 300BC or thereabouts, which explains how it got a Greek name and appears in Greek plays.

" suggesting overlapping petals or feathers," This is, again, not explained or sourced further in the article (a basic requirement). (Further in the article, " tufts ornamented like a toothed-comb over the wool": a toothed-comb? Ignoring the spelling mistake, it seems that this misinterprets sources claiming that it may have been made using a fine-toothed comb).

All this from a two-line lead...

The remainder of the article also needs a thorough, thorough rewrite. The purpose of the "purpose" section is unclear, it contains information not logically connected to one another and seems like some random bits of information that couldn't be fitted into the remainder of the article. The history section has strange things like "[...] could be traced to the 400–300 BC." Or something like "Coptic Egypt, not Mesopotamia, is credited with the original design of woven tapestry with projecting long locks or strands of wool." Coptic Egypt was not around before 50CE or thereabouts, so it is very hard to see what it may have to do with this article. Fram (talk) 13:37, 31 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Contradiction

Most of the article dates the origin of the kaunakes a few millennia BC and places it in Mesopotamia, at the dawn of recorded Sumerian history. The suddenly we get this:

'It is also believed that kaunakes, as a fashioned fleece, while not mentioned prior to 300 BC could be traced to the 400–300 BC. During the Greek period of Aristophanes the garment was made from goat's hair or wool in the style of a weighty mantle or cape. Coptic Egypt, not Mesopotamia, is credited with the original design of woven tapestry with projecting long locks or strands of wool.'

This passage entails that the dress only arose a few centuries, rather than millennia, BC and that it originated from Egypt rather than Mesopotamia. And from "Coptic Egypt", too - a vague phrase which I would take to mean a century or two AD; even if we, charitably, interpret the phrase as including the period where Old Coptic texts start appearing, namely the 3rd century BC, that would still mean about two centuries later than Aristophanes - who the same passage says mentions the kaunakes, resulting in another contradiction. 62.73.69.121 (talk) 08:12, 17 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]