Talk:Kathryn D. Sullivan/GA1

GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: Balon Greyjoy (talk · contribs) 07:27, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I was planning on eventually working on this page; glad to see you beat me to it! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 07:27, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Hawkeye7: I have finished my initial review of this article. It looks like most of the points have already been addressed; please let me know if you have any questions! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 07:30, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Happy to pass this! Balon Greyjoy (talk) 23:04, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Good Article review progress box

Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()

3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()

Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Prose

Education

"She found she had a flair for languages." I don't think this is necessary, as the next sentence describes her taking multiple languages and wanting to be an FSO.

Y Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:47, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"She enjoyed oceanography, and altered her course to take in more science subjects related to it." I'm assuming she changed her major, as she graduated with a degree in Earth Science. But this reads like she just decided to take more oceanography classes.

Y Added a bit more. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:47, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Was she an exchange student for a semester or year? It would make more sense to say something like "she spent her junior (or third) year in university as an exchange student" rather than make it sound like it was a 2 year period (which I'm assuming it wasn't).

Y It was for over a year. In Norway the school year begins in September, so school years do not coincide with calendar years. Added a bit more to clarify this. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:47, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is there more information about her grad school time? That was a 5 year period, and it sounds like she traveled extensively to conduct research.

Yes, but lacking in details. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:47, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

NASA career

I changed the wording for when she went home for Christmas to clarify it wasn't her own home, but her family's (which I'm assuming is the case)

Y Yes, that's right. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:47, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"saw an ad in a science journal" Maybe add it's a NASA ad?

Y Yes. Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:47, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did Sullivan conduct dives in Alvin? It's not clear from the way it's currently written.

No, but she eventually makes it to Challenger Deep. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:47, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, but this currently reads like she may have joined Ryan's team. It discusses how he is a mentor to her, but as I understand it he offered her a research position that she never took?
Y Yes. It seems to be belabouring the point, but added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:35, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I changed this slightly; I think it makes more sense on the previous paragraph.

The Group 6 nickname isn't necessary.

Y Deleted. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:47, 22 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Sullivan was one of the three members of the group (the others being Sally Ride and Steve Hawley) for whom NASA astronaut would be their first full-time job" I understand that this is coming from Sullivan's book, but I think this reads like Sullivan, Hawley, and Ride are all fresh out of university, rather than demanding Ph.D programs that were, in a sense, full-time jobs.

I think you're forgetting that I have a PhD too. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Either way, I wouldn't consider a Ph.D program to not be a full time job (albeit with a stipend much lower than minimum hourly wage).
There is no stipend. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:33, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Each was given a special assignment." This reads like the TFNG class received unusual assignments, rather than the standard practice. Maybe something like "While waiting to be put on a flight, astronauts were assigned to specific research and development projects within NASA."

Y Tweaked wording. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"In Sullivan's case, she helped develop systems management checklists" Easier just to say "Sullivan helped develop systems management..."

Y Changed as suggested. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"based at Ellington Air Force Base" Maybe say that Ellington is in Houston? This might come across like it's an assignment to some far-off base, rather than within the same city.

Y Added "nearby". Hawkeye7 (discuss)

The paragraph starting with "In July 1983" has two sentences that begin with Sullivan being assigned. As the Office of Space and Terrestrial Applications is within the Mission Development group, maybe condense these sentences?

Y Tweaked wording. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"she was formally assigned" Isn't it sufficient to say she was assigned to the mission, without "formally"?

Y No, because a team often worked on a mission before it was publicly announced. Changed to "officially". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I would break up the sentence about two women being in space together, and the STS-41-G launch.

Y Split sentence. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"The STS-61-J mission was aborted by the January 1986" I would change that to the mission getting cancelled/postpones; "aborted" makes it sound like it was on the launch pad.

Y Changed to "cancelled". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is there more information about STS-31 and Sullivan's role? It's arguably one of the most high-profile shuttle missions, and it was obviously a big event in Sullivan's career, as she titled her autobiography based upon that mission.

Anything in particular that you think should be included? Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
What experiments she helped conduct, what her role was in deploying the HST (anything in addition to suiting up for an EVA), if she filmed for IMAX, etc. It just seems like there is very little information about her role on the mission.
No information. The mission was light on experiments, as the HST consumed most of the payload weight. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:47, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Is there more information for STS-45? It's a really short mission description.

Y I guess I was getting tired by that point. Not really much on this mission, but expanded. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:35, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not a fan of the in-section galleries of images. I think it still falls within the guidance for WP:GALLERY, but I think the article could be improved by selecting only 2 or 3 of the 6 images in the gallery and inserting them within the text.

Switched to a more conventional layout. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 21:35, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think this looks much better. I don't have a problem with it and think it looks good, but some of the images break MOS:SANDWICH, so this may be an issue for other editors if this goes up for FAC.

Military career

Did Sullivan have to attend Officer Candidate School? Did she go to oceanography officer formal training?

Y No, she was a direct commission officer. Added a link. She would not have had oceanographer training, but would have completed a two-week training program. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Soon after," When was this?

Y Changed to "in 1988". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"The unit was called up for active duty during the 1991 Gulf War" What does this mean? Did they travel for an extended period of time (to Guam or elsewhere) for her active service, or did the reservists work full time at Naval Air Station Dallas? How long of a period was this for?

Y Added "on Guam". Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I consolidated the two sentences.

Is there any more info about her naval career? This sections spends as much space talking about how she joined the Navy as it does talking about her 16(?) year career.

No information. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Shame. I would think there would be more info, but I guess when you're an astronaut people don't ask too many questions about your reservist career.

I did dig up a photo of her in her Navy uniform. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 01:24, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Civilian career

"Under her leadership, COSI strengthened its impact on science teaching in the classroom and its national reputation as an innovator of hands-on, inquiry-based science learning resources." This reads like an advertisement; I would remove it

Y Removed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"volunteer science advisor to COSI" Is she really a volunteer if she is already the president and CEO?

Y I know what you're thinking: she should have billed them big bucks as a consultant. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I guess my question is if she was still president/CEO at the time of her volunteering, or is it just that she would still volunteer her time at COSI when she could?
As the article says, she was no longer CEO. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 20:43, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"the White House sent to the Senate the nomination of Sullivan by President Barack Obama to be an Assistant Secretary of Commerce" This is very wordy; why not just say that President Obama sent the nomination? The term "the White House" is used interchangeably, to some degree, with the sitting US president.

Y Trimmed. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"did not approve her nomination and a bevy of others forwarded late in December" Maybe this should state that it was before the Senate goes out of session? Otherwise it looks like they just rejected a bunch of nominations in December, which is at odds with her unanimous approval.

Y Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"During her residence in the museum, Sullivan's research focused on the Hubble Space Telescope" Is this research that led to her autobiography, or something different?

Yes. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'm a little confused then about what she was researching. I haven't read her book, but it seems odd to talk about how she is researching something, but then it just produces her own autobiography.
The Hubble. Her book also incorporates biographical material. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 06:57, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"She discussed the book and her participation in the Hubble telescope's development and launch on BBC Radio 4's Woman's Hour and at the Royal Institution in London in March 2020" Is this that significant? It just sounds like typical book tour interviews/panels

I don't know; another editor thought it was important. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I removed it, I don't think its necessary to recount the interviews that she gave for a book release that are then cited.

Awards and recognition

"According to John Glenn," Maybe say that he wrote her Time 100 blurb? Otherwise this just sounds like Glenn's praise for Sullivan right after saying she was on the Time 100 list.

Y Added. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 10:46, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Refs

Some of the references are missing info, mostly date and authors. I updated a few while doing spot checks, but there are still quite a few with blank info.

None found. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 18:29, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I just added 3 dates to references that did not have them. Please check again. Balon Greyjoy (talk) 23:08, 1 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All had access dates. Only books and newspapers have publication dates. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 00:52, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not sure about this; aren't page publications dates the date that is supposed to be used in the cite web date parameter?

All sources appear reliable.