Talk:Karkheh River

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Requested Move

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Why is the ancient rather than current river name used?Babakathy (talk) 10:35, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From the general guidelines for geographic names "When a widely accepted English name, in a modern context, exists for a place, we should use it." For this river it is clearly Karkheh. It would be good to add normal river information (as per most good river articles) and put most of the current stub as a section on "Biblical references".Babakathy (talk) 13:42, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Choaspes is Greek; it is used in the Bible because the Septuagint did. This is what WP:NCGN describes as a widely used historical name, which should be used when "the article deals only with a place in a period when it held a different name". Write an article on the Karkheh (now a redirect) by all means, and link here; whether this river, the Eulaeus, and the Karkheh are entirely identical is open to some question. Moving to Choaspes (Susiana) would make sense. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 18:25, 24 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

whether this river, the Eulaeus, and the Karkheh are entirely identical is open to some question I did not realise this (knowing little of biblical rivers), indeed the current article states the identity as fact. On this basis I agree with your position. Babakathy 04:11, 25 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Babakathy (talk • contribs)

Pauly's says, for example, that the Choaspes may also be the Karun. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 23:38, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See [1]. It is Wikipedia's job to go based off what most reliable sources state, and this appears to be enough. Khoi khoi 04:53, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support Karkheh is the widely accepted English name. Just compare Google hits.--Larno Man (talk) 17:07, 29 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support per Larno Man .--Mardetanha ^talk 03:09, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Support. It may have been a widely-used name in ancient times, but it is clear that the most common name in English today for this river is "Karkheh". For example, it receives more hits on Google Books (226 vs. 193) and Google Scholar (77 vs. 9). WP:NCGN clearly says, "When a widely accepted English name, in a modern context (emphasis mine), exists for a place, we should use it." It also says, "If the place does not exist anymore, or the article deals only with a place in a period when it held a different name, the widely accepted historical English name should be used." In this particular case, the river still exists, so we should go with the modern English name. Khoi khoi 03:38, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

support Karkheh is the modern name of this river.( Karkheh, Karkhe, Karxe, Karxeh are the diffrent spellings of the same name)--Babakexorramdin (talk) 13:02, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

support Karkhe is correct name and i live in Iran and hear this name Amir (talk) 21:54, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Page moved per consensus. Nishkid64 _{(Make articles, not wikidrama)} 23:07, 30 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Additional references

An important contribution to matching the ancient and modern names for rivers in the vicinity of Susa aka Shush aka Shushan, see John Hansman, Charax and the Karkheh. Iranica Antiqua VII(1967), pp.21-58. The problem with the ancient names is that while the Karheh flowed a mile or two west of Susa, another major watercourse flowed parallel to the Karkheh within a few miles east of Susa. When these rivers are in flood stage, the entire area south of Susa can be flooded, as the waters of the two rivers mingle. The eastern river, now called the Shaur, is a problem because its lower course has changed. At one time, the Shaur flowed east into the Dez, near where the Dez and Karun rivers merge. The timing of these changes is not known with any certainty. The ancient name of the Shaur may have been the Choaspes. I have been to the area, and have seen Susa and both rivers up close. — Preceding unsigned comment added by BobSchacht (talk • contribs) 21:29, 27 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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To add to article

To add to article: a map. 76.189.141.37 (talk) 05:58, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]