Talk:Julie Payne (actress, born 1940)

Marriage to Robert Towne

Hqb: How do you know that this is the Julie Payne who married Robert Towne, rather than the other one? Serious question: if you have a source establishing this, you should put a reference note in the article. The IMDb still ascribes this to both women as of this writing, and the date cited there for the wedding is November 1977 (again for both actresses, so Towne didn't happen to have a marriage with each at different times). The Julie from Indiana had been in Hollywood since 1970 and could easily have met and married him by then. BTW, I know that his daughter's IMDb page says she's John Payne & Anne Shirley's granddaughter, but that could be nothing more than the result of one of the IMDb's regulars seeing the note on their daughter's bio page and submitting that presumed relationship between them and Towne's daughter to the site, and would not be genuine evidence at all. On the other hand, given Towne's standing in the film business the daughter of two Hollywood stars (albeit faded ones who had never quite reached the top level at their respective peaks) does seem a more likely bride for him than a relatively recent arrival from the Midwest who was still struggling to establish her acting career. But that's hardly good enough on which to base a firm decision for Wikipedia. Pending an answer to my question, I'm putting up a cite tag. --Tbrittreid (talk) 17:55, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

You are right to be concerned, but as you may have seen on Talk:Julie Payne [if I had actually signed my comment there, sigh], I was the one who brought up this issue originally, so I'm very aware of the need to avoid relying on IMDB. However, I have now seen a number of newspaper clippings (with at least one substantially predating both IMDB and the WWW) confirming in passing that it was indeed the daughter of John Payne who married Robert Towne (e.g., [1], [2]), so I'm confident that it's the IMDB entry for Julie K. Payne that's mistaken. However, it seems weird to cite those snippets directly as references in the Julie Ann Payne article, because they are not really about her in the first place. The articles about Robert Towne and John Payne also agree about the family connections. Since there are prominent hatnotes in both Julies' biographies warning readers and editors not to confuse them, we should be reasonably safe. Hqb (talk) 18:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Regs here definitely prohibit using a Wiki article as a source, which you just did, even without an in-article citation. As for the others, I saw a newspaper obituary for Dame Judith Anderson years before she actually died—she had in fact just started work on the daytime soap opera Santa Barbara. In 2001, Film Fax magazine (specifically in issue #83) was convinced that the absence of Tom Baker from a 1999 convention-like discussion of the film The Golden Voyage of Sinbad, which featured its other stars John Phillip Law and Caroline Munro plus special effects master Ray Harryhausen, was due to his being dead. When via email I pointed out plenty of online evidence of public activity in 2000, explained the Judith Anderson incident (to say quite clearly I thought that their misstatement was by no means necessarily their fault), and recommended they check their sources, I never heard from them again. Even stranger, the following issue's letter column carried a lengthy list of admitted errors in #83, but not that one. The point is that any periodical is less than completely trustworthy, especially in a more-or-less passing reference like this where already existing confusion between the two Julies could easily have been merely reflected there. No, it'll take something like an authoritative biography of Towne, Shirley or the elder Payne before I'll be able to agree, "We should be reasonably safe." --Tbrittreid (talk) 19:58, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree that the evidence is not ironclad; but I've yet to see a source comparable to the NYT (which does have fairly rigorous fact-checking standards) claim that it was Julie K from Indiana who was married to Towne. Likewise, I didn't mean to imply that the other Wikipedia articles could in themselves be used to establish that Julie Ann was married to Towne, just that they were consistent with all the other presumed-reliable sources so far, except for IMDB (which is inconclusive, rather than directly contradictory). So by "reasonably safe" I mean that it now seems highly unlikely that Towne was in fact married to Julie Kathleen rather than Julie Ann. I'm fine with adding a tag requesting a completely bulletproof citation, but I think leaving the article with a non-committal "She^[which?] married Robert Towne" for the indefinite future is not justifiable. Hqb (talk) 21:02, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Birth date

The article says July 10, 1940 in Los Angeles (from IMDB?), but do we actually have a reliable source? This seemingly well-researched magazine article about her mother says August 10, as does this this book (in part) about her father, so there's reason to be concerned. On the other hand, this page (which is supposedly based on Lois Rodden-endorsed Ed Steinbrecher's inspection of the birth certificate) does say July 10, 1940 at 02:48 in Hollywood; but given the nature of the site, I'm reluctant to cite it as a source. Hqb (talk) 19:13, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Death, or confusion with the other Julie Payne?

I just removed a couple references to her still being alive, after seeing a date of death; however, I also noticed that a section of the article says that another Julie Payne in the movie business was born in 1951 and died on 15 July 2016, the same day as in the subject's info-box, so maybe the person who put that date of death there and at the beginning of the article was mixing the two up. Julyo (talk) 05:29, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

I have reverted the death date as it was a mix up. --Racklever (talk) 08:19, 8 September 2017 (UTC)