Talk:Julia Stewart (actress)

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Infobox

Not sure why it was removed but it is normal practice to add infoboxes to most articles I dont see why this one should be an exception. MilborneOne (talk) 19:48, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely wrong. The Manual of Style says: "Whether to include an infobox ... is determined through discussion and consensus among the editors at each individual article." While sports and politician bios can benefit from infoboxes, most articles in liberal arts fields, as here, do not: "Infoboxes may be particularly unsuited to liberal arts fields when they repeat information already available in the lead section of the article, are misleading or oversimplify the topic for the reader". I disagree with including an infobox in this article because: (1) The box emphasizes unimportant factoids stripped of context and lacking nuance, in competition with the WP:LEAD section, which emphasizes and contextualizes the most important facts. (2) Since the most important points in the article are already discussed in the Lead, or adequately discussed in the body of the article, the box is redundant. (3) It takes up valuable space at the top of the article and hampers the layout and impact of the Lead. (4) Frequent errors creep into infoboxes, as updates are made to the articles but not reflected in the redundant info in the box, and they tend to draw more vandalism and fancruft than other parts of articles. (5) The infobox template creates a block of code at the top of the edit screen that discourages new editors from editing the article. (6) It discourages readers from reading the text of the article. (7) It distracts editors from focusing on the content of the article. Instead of improving the article, they spend time working on this repetitive feature and its coding and formatting. See also WP:DISINFOBOX. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:50, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

WP:DISINFOBOX is only an essay so can be ignored, I propose that this like ten of thousands of other articles has an infobox to summarise the key facts, thanks. MilborneOne (talk) 19:55, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Infoboxes don't summarize facts, they provide factoids. WP:LEAD sections summarize key facts and provide an overview of the article. If you're going to propose an infobox, you should at least understand its purpose and function. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:31, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

As I have said elsewhere, in my opinion infoboxes add nothing to an article that isn't included in a well-written lead section. Not needed here. Jack1956 (talk) 20:49, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with the above statements by Ssilvers and Jack1956. Somambulant1 (talk) 21:01, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I second the statement made by Ssilvers and am opposed to the addition of an infobox. JAGUAR 17:06, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Julia Stewart, stage actress; not Stuart, the Silent film actress who died in 49

The information that had been included in this bio about Julia Stuart, the silent film actress born in Sandwich, England, does not appear to be about this stage actress, who Pascoe says was born in London. -- Ssilvers (talk) 22:29, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Some sources connect the two actresses, but as the following source notes, this is uncertain.

"Sandwich Kent England UK: Julia Stuart, Actress of the Silent Screen". www.open-sandwich.co.uk. —2606:A000:4C0C:E200:51F3:8BF2:45BE:D2A4 (talk) 23:57, 2 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'll check further, but at present I think it is very dubious that they could be the same person. -- Ssilvers (talk) 01:47, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I would agree we dont have enough evidence to work out any connection. Just to note I have put the date of birth back again as the source for the date and location mentions she is the daughter of David Stewart. MilborneOne (talk) 14:32, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

OK, good. I moved the birth date ref. to the correct position and removed the repetition of it. What else does the Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News article say about her? I will continue looking for more on Stewart's later life and career. -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:01, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It does have a potted history some of which is already in the article, I will go through it again and see what can be added to the article. MilborneOne (talk) 18:10, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Just a bit from the Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News November 1877 - Youngest daughter of the late Auld Davie Stewart, first stage aged five Theatre Royal, Glasgow managed by Glover and Francis, first speaking the following year as "Sybil" in Wolf in Sheep's Clothing, she was then kept on to do other children's parts. Her managers then moved on the Theatre Royal, Newcastle-on-Tyne. "A few months ago (1877) she left Glover and Francis to join Miss Sarah Thorne at Worcester, chosen to support Charles Mathews on tour. Played Maggie Macfarlane in "Engaged" at the Haymarket in London. "The young lady has commenced her career in London brilliantly". MilborneOne (talk) 18:48, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In the The Era (newspaper) 17 February 1887 she was listed as being in the original 1877 cast of Engaged (play) at the Haymarket.
She appeared on stage as a part of an English company in New York in September 1879 "Of these the most favourable impressions were created by Mr Blakeley and Miss Stewart". The Era (newspaper) 12 October 1879
The Era 21 November 1880: SALVINI (?) will begin his American season at Philadelphia November 29th. His company will include .. and Miss Julia Stewart.

Thanks. All of that is already in the article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:19, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

One more I have found far later then any of the others - The Stage 16 September 1920 page 17 at the Shubert Theatre (New York City) in a Robert Courtneidge production of Paddy the Next Best Thing supporting cast includes Julia Stewart. MilborneOne (talk) 19:34, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any indication that this is the stage actress, or the other person? The IBDB identifies her as "Julia Stuart", and that Julia Stuart, I bet, is the person who later became the film actress. If it turns out that they were the same person, that would be very interesting indeed, and if not, then Julia Stuart needs her own article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:43, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No it doesnt say any more about her, the only thing was that Courtneidge was an English producer I believe but not enough to be sure about which Stewart/Stuart. Cant find anything in the papers about Stewart after the 1880s so she may have stayed in America but that is a guess. Cant find anything that ties in with the UK census records for her either. MilborneOne (talk) 19:48, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I think she probably did stay in America. I think she probably intended to continue working for Edward Askew Sothern, who intended to produce an American tour with a new play by W. S. Gilbert, but Sothern fell ill and died without producing the play. Without Sothern, Stewart had to make a career for herself with other producers. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:29, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Later roles

Here is a brief mention of an 1887 performance in Boston (US). -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:30, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to go on but the Illustrated Sporting and Dramatic News 13 October 1877 in a review of her performance in Engaged calls her Julia Stuart! In an article in The Sketch 17 June 1896 in a piece about Miss Amy Thomas tour in America "in Miss Julia Stuart's company". MilborneOne (talk) 19:55, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Is there anything else in The Sketch article about Julia? -- can you tell if it's the same Julia? What is the page number in The Sketch? What shows and cities are they touring to? What roles is Julia playing? -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:55, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I will have another look at the Sketch for clues it may not be today. MilborneOne (talk) 21:20, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The Sketch 17 June 1896 page 11 - "We should forgive England much if she would send us more artists like Miss Amy Thomas" wrote an American journalist in on the of leading newspapers published in the United States during Miss Thomas's recent tour, from which she has just returned. She there personated Kate Merryweather in the "Idler", Voilet Esmond in "The Crust of Society", and Moley Lewell in the "Sealed Lips" under Mr. and Mrs. Arthur Lewis's management, and added to her success by appears as Christina Linded in "A Doll's House" and as Rebecca in "Sam'l of Posen", in Miss Julia Stuart's company, while the last character portrayed be her on the other side was Madelon in "The Cricket", under Mr. John N. Thorne. MilborneOne (talk) 15:38, 4 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Same problem: there is no clear indication that this Julia Stuart is our Julia Stewart. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:06, 5 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Here are some more roles, if anyone can figure out exactly when and where these were? -- Ssilvers (talk) 06:51, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Census; Death Certificate of Julia Stuart

Probably not relevant and original research but a Julia Stuart aged 56 appears in the 1920 Census on West 45th Street Manhattan as an actress born around 1864 in Scotland immigration year 1880, father born Scotland, mother in England. It says she is divorced. MilborneOne (talk) 20:21, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

In the 1930 Census of Philadelphia "Julia Stuart" aged 66 is shown as an inmate in the Edwin Forrest Home born around 1864 in England, father born Scotland, mother born England, immigration year 1880. Divorced no occupation. I believe the Edwin Forrest home was related to the acting profession. MilborneOne (talk) 20:21, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Do these name the ex-husband? Anyone else in the household? That could potentially be our Julia, although it is strange that they don't mention that she was an actress. Here is something on the Edwin Forrest Home for Actors. It shows a Julia Stuart living there in 1942. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:02, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No but the 1920 entry says "actress" and her death certificate says she was an actress. Still looking no sign she married in England. MilborneOne (talk) 21:11, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The death certificate of Julia Stuart, died 12 December 1945 at the Fitzgerald Mercy Hospital, normal residence Edwin Forrest Home, Philadelpha. Birth date 20 June 1863 in London, England (we have 20 June 1862) , Divorced, retired actress, father David O.G. Stuart born Scotland, mother Emma Louise born England. Primary source but lots of evidence that this is the same Julia Stewart the subject of the article. MilborneOne (talk) 20:34, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Further original research indicates that her father was David Oglivie Stewart and her mother Emma Louise Perkins, they married in London iin 1855. They appear to have had a daughter Julia Emma Stewart in Clerkenwell in Q3 1861. Have not found anything that shows that David Oglivie Stewart is the "auld Davie Stewart" mentioned in the article. MilborneOne (talk) 21:15, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Good progress. The concept of "original research", as used in Wikipedia, does not prohibit you from doing research. What makes something forbidden WP:Original research is when we state facts without having WP:RSs to back them up. In this case, you are gathering sources, which is super. -- Ssilvers (talk) 21:24, 3 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]