Talk:Juice Wrld/GA1

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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GA Review

Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch

Reviewer: The Ultimate Boss (talk · contribs) 19:05, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

The Ultimate Boss, can I get a timetable for when you plan on reviewing this article? My goal is to have it passed before what would've been his 22nd birthday on December 2 (which, as it turns out, is also my 22nd). dannymusiceditor ^oops 19:52, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

1. Well written:
   1. the prose is clear and concise, and the spelling and grammar are correct;
   2. it complies with the manual of style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
   1. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;

• Ref 5 should list YouTube as the publisher
• Ref 7 should list YouTube as the publisher
• MOS:CAP issues on ref 8 and should list YouTube as the publisher
• Wikilink Complex to Complex for ref 10
• Change SoundCloud as a publisher for ref 12
• Remove wikilink from Complex on ref 19
• MOS:QWQ issues on ref 20
• MOS:QWQ and MOS:CAP issues on ref 21
• Remove wikilink from Billboard on ref 25
• Remove wikilink from Billboard on ref 27
• Pigeons and Planes needs to be spaced on ref 28
• Remove wikilink from XXL on ref 29
• MOS:QWQ issues on ref 30
• Remove wikilink from Billboard on ref 31
• MOS:QWQ issues on ref 32
• MOS:CAP issues on ref 34
• Remove wikilink from Billboard on ref 37
• MOS:QWQ issues and wikilink Highsnobiety on ref 38
• MOS:QWQ issues for ref 40
• I have heard uDiscoverMusic is not a reliable source from other editors. If I am wrong, please correct me.
• Remove wikilink from XXL on ref 42
• Remove wikilink from Pitchfork on ref 44
• Remove wikilink from Rolling Stone on ref 45
• Remove wikilink from XXL on ref 46
• MOS:QWQ issues on ref 48
• Wikilink Much to Much (TV channel) on ref 50
• Remove wikilink from Billboard on ref 51
• MOS:QWQ issues HotNewHipHop needs to be italicized on ref 52
• MOS:QWQ issues and remove wikilink from The Fader on ref 53
• MOS:QWQ issues on ref 54
• Wikilink People to People (magazine) and don't capitalize on ref 55
• Remove wikilink from Billboard on ref 57
• Remove wikilink from NBC on ref 59
• MOS:QWQ issues and should not read as Pitchfork (website), instead it should just be Pitchfork. Also, remove wikilink on ref 60
• MOS:QWQ issues and remove wikilink Genius. Genius should also be cited as a publisher on ref 62
• Should cite Spotify as the publisher on ref 63.
• Remove wikilink from XXL and remove "Mag" on ref 64
• Should site YouTube on ref 65
• MOS:QWQ issues and remove "Mag" on ref 67
• Remove wikilink from Billboard on ref 68
• Ref 69 is not a reliable source as it is a blog
• MOS:QWQ issues and site Genius as a publisher on ref 70
• MOS:QWQ issues on ref 71
• Do not capitalize Hypebeast on ref 72
• Remove wikilink from Billboard on ref 73
• Remove wikilink from Rolling Stone on ref 76
• Remove wikilink from XXL and remove "Mag" on ref 78
• Remove wikilink from NME on ref 79
• NME should be capitalized on ref 80
• Ref 83 is unreliable
• Cite iHeartRadio as a publisher on ref 84
• Remove wikilink from Billboard on 86
• Remove TRL from ref 88 and wikilink MTV
• Cite Genius as a publisher on ref 89
• Cite Uproxx as a publisher and remove Uproxx Media Group, Inc on ref 90
• Ref 91 is from The New York Times, cite them as website/work and wikilink it
• Remove wikilink from XXL on ref 92
• Remove wikilink from Billboard on 93
• MOS:QWQ issues and should not be typed as 'djbooth.net. change it to DJ Booth instead on ref 98
• Remove wikilink from Complex and remove Complex Media, LLC on ref 99
• Ref 102 is not a reliable source.
• Wikilink Chicago Tribune on ref 103
• Cite TMZ as a publisher on ref 104
• Remove wikilink from Complex on ref 105
• Ref 106 is a duplicate of ref 103
• Remove wikilink from XXL on ref 107
• Cite Independent as The Independent on ref 108
• Remove wikilink for TMZ and cite it as a publisher on ref 109
• MOS:QWQ issues and should cite SOHH as a publisher, not as sohh.com. on ref 110
• Remove wikilink for TMZ and cite it as a publisher on ref 111
• MOS:QWQ issues and remove wikilink from Revolt on ref 112
• MOS:QWQ issues and remove wikilink and cite as website/work for HipHopDX on ref 113
• The author should not be list as an email on ref 114
• MOS:QWQ issues and should not be put as Hotnewhiphop.com. Instead, change it to HotNewHipHop and cite it as work/website on ref 115
• Should not be put as Globalnews.ca. Instead, wikilink and change it to Global News and cite is as a publisher for ref 117
• Remove wikilink from Billboard on ref 118
• Wikilink Yahoo to Yahoo! and cite it as a publisher on ref 120
• NME should be capitalized on ref 121
• Ref 122 is not a reliable source
• MOS:CAP issues and wikilink Rap-Up and cite it as website/work on ref 123
• Ref 124 does not bring me to Juice Wrld's tour dates, just AXS's website.
• Wikilink BET and cite it as a publisher on ref 126
• Ref 127 needs an author
• Remove wikilink from iHeartRadio on ref 128.

1. 1. all in-line citations are from reliable sources, including those for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines;

• Some sources are blogs and unreliable.

1. 1. it contains no original research; and
   2. it contains no copyright violations nor plagiarism.
2. Broad in its coverage:
   1. it addresses the main aspects of the topic; and
   2. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
3. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
4. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
5. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
   1. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content; and
   2. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
6. Overall
   1. 

The article looks great. It's just that the references are a mess and need to be fixed. I'm putting the article  On hold for seven days. The Ultimate Boss (talk) 20:53, 18 November 2020 (UTC)

I have heard from different people different things about it, but what I've mostly heard was that WP:OVERLINK did not apply to ref formatting. If you insist, I will comply for whatever will get this passed, but I'd rather have them all linked (which I bet they're not anyway at the moment). dannymusiceditor ^oops 22:23, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

DannyMusicEditor, its been way over seven days and you haven't done any edits to the article. I will give you another 2 days to do address my issues. If you don't, I'm afraid I'm going to have to fail the review. The Ultimate Boss (talk) 22:50, 27 November 2020 (UTC)

The Ultimate Boss, I asked you a question above that you seem to have ignored. I even left you a message on your talk page about it. I suppose I should have been more clear in that I was questioning if that was really necessary instead of making note of it. Once I get the answer to that, I will know how to approach finishing the article. dannymusiceditor ^oops 00:34, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Apologies for butting in here, but there is no policy/guideline against linking every time in the references, in fact many GAs/FAs/FLs etc. do. The important part is consistency, a) link every time b) link none c) link the first time for each. I glanced at the other comments from the reviewer and they all look like well-founded and sensible comments. Aza24 (talk) 03:02, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for this insight, Aza24, I thought but wasn't sure this was the case. I'd prefer to get them all linked up so nobody has to go looking for the link on the publisher. I agree that all the other concerns brought forward by the reviewer are reasonable and will fix those accordingly in the morning. dannymusiceditor ^oops 03:46, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

I really do love Juice Wrld, and am really sad he died at only 21 years old and a day after my birthday, but I am back in school full time now and don't have time to continue the review. I ask that another nominator takes over for me. The Ultimate Boss (talk) 06:10, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

That's fair. I will send this to the GAN talk page in the daylight hours, but for now I must sleep. Never mind, a second opinion request will work. dannymusiceditor ^oops 06:14, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Second opinion request

TL;DR: Original reviewer can no longer continue the review. Although I have not followed through on their comments yet, I have received feedback on my questions that can now allow me to finish it. Another reviewer to supervise this nomination would be appreciated. dannymusiceditor ^oops 06:19, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Hi @DannyMusicEditor:, I'll take this over. It looks like the refs have improved but I think all the comments above are sound. I don't understand what your reply about overlinking was? I'll add some comments about prose, but it's a well-written article. Kingsif (talk) 17:39, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

• Given the formatting of the other sites, I'll assume the two duplicates in the copyvio check stole from Wikipedia, not the other way around. Kingsif (talk) 19:45, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

@Kingsif: The original reviewer is particularly anal about linking in reference formatting as well as which parameters to use for what information, when it makes little or no visual difference. Personally I think it is practical to link a publication in a reference every time, especially when it is used many times from different journal articles, so a reader doesn't have to search for the one reference that does link it - this would be what the original review was aiming to do. It is both consistent and convenient. Thus I do not wish to do this unless you absolutely insist, but I think most would not require this. As for the others, I don't see where said changes are necessary per the GA criteria, or the layout guidelines linked. Your suggestions below I shall take a look at and complete, I'll let you know if I have further response or questions. dannymusiceditor ^oops 03:50, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

I also dispute whether MOS:QWQ is valid on source titles. It doesn't say anything about it in the page. I thought reference titles were to be taken verbatim. dannymusiceditor ^oops 03:57, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

@DannyMusicEditor: there's nothing in the GA about wikilinking e.g. journals in refs, and different views on ref formatting (i.e. no true standard). I am indifferent on what you do here. And if QWQ doesn't mention something, I won't hold you to it. Kingsif (talk) 13:05, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Kingsif, I must regretfully inform you that I would like you to fail this for now. I have gotten very busy, and do not see a light at the end of the tunnel of when I will be available to work on this again. I thank you for your comments, but it's just not fair for me to have you keep it open this long. dannymusiceditor ^oops 05:21, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

@DannyMusicEditor: Ok then, feel free to ping me when you next nominate it. Hopefully you'll have been able to spend time really working on it :) Kingsif (talk) 12:24, 16 February 2021 (UTC)

• his father left, leaving his mother to raise him as a single mother along with one older brother - needs an edit for clarity. Is it his mother's older brother, his older brother? Is the brother being raised by the mother or helping raise Juice? The phrasing makes all these dubious, even though I assume it's Juice's older brother and the mother raised both of them alone.
• He was allowed to listen to rock and pop music, however, and he found this on video games - was he allowed to listen to those genres or did he find them in video games? Some combination of both? Also, since there's multiple genres, "this" should be "these".
• The wikilink for "lean" should be Lean (drug) rather than purple drank (the latter is a redirect). I am also surprised that article tells you how to make it.
• Is there anything to add about how his mother inspired him to play piano? Did she play it or did she encourage him?
• He signed subsequently with → "subsequently signed with"
• Many hip-hop blogs such as Lyrical Lemonade featured it,[17] - [17] is the only ref, and points to Lyrical Lemonade. "Many hip-hop blogs" is completely unsourced and should be removed. There's no indication of scope. Even 'primary sources', a selection of other blogs as refs, would be okay.
• receiving a Best New Music designation - do you mean "award"?
• Higgins' debut full-length Goodbye & Good Riddance, → Higgins' debut full-length album, Goodbye & Good Riddance,
• XXXTentacion was shot and killed during a robbery attempt a day earlier - this should have the date and then say it was the day before the album was released. The last time frame referenced is Peep's 2017 death, not the album release, and it makes it sound like X died the day before Peep.
• The song "Legends" from the EP debuted at number 65. needs a ref
• It debuted at number 68 and peaked 67 next week on the Billboard Hot 100 → "It debuted at number 68 on the Billboard Hot 100 and peaked in its second week on the chart, at 67"
• The following day, - when time references are unclear (in the prior two sentences we've had single release, chart position, second week chart position. To which date is this phrase referring!) just give the date. Just give the date.
• released the official version of "Motions" on SoundCloud on July 25.[30] On July 20, 2018, Higgins announced his first tour - but when you have ended a sentence on a date, you can refer to it at the start of the next. Here, it would flow better to say "Five days earlier, Higgins had announced..."
• The paragraph beginning In December 2018, Ski Mask the Slump God confirmed... reads more like a list than prose, could the sentences be varied a bit?
• Why is information about his death duplicated in the career section? In an unreferenced paragraph, this should just be removed.
• Regarding the associated acts param in the infobox, this should only include artists with which he had at least 2 significant collaborations. Some of those included qualify, others don't.
• Maybe make the Posthumous releases header say "2020–present: Posthumous releases" to match the other career sections?
• First two posthumous releases paragraphs can be combined to one. Both short and about the same period. The lengthy quote block is unnecessary and should be removed
• This section also feels very list-y, and needs some update clean-up, e.g. On April 23, Higgins' estate announced on his Instagram account that his first posthumous single, "Righteous", would be released later that night.[62] Released at midnight on April 24, an accompanying music video with footage of Higgins was uploaded to his YouTube channel. - we don't need to know about the announcement once the single has been released unless there's something inherently notable about the announcement itself. (E.g., on an actor bio we don't say it was announced they would be in X film, and then when X film was released. We just say when it was released and that they were in it.)
• Higgins' estate publicly announced the title of the late rapper's first posthumous album had been changed to Legends Never Die on July 6. - press release-y. Just say that the album's title was changed. It would also read a lot better if this paragraph was reordered. Put the album release first, then mention the prior title change.
• On the same day, Higgins' estate also released "Life's a Mess" featuring Halsey[68] and "Come & Go" a few days later on July 9 featuring Marshmello. - this sentence is ungrammatical. "a few days later" is not "on the same day". It would be easier to say between the album announcement and its release, two single collaborations were released.
• "Life's a Mess" notably jumped from number 74 to number nine that week - since the source is just the Billboard chart, "notably" doesn't belong here
• Split the information that's not about the album from that paragraph (everything from On October 23,)
• In 2021, Higgins' final music video was released by Cole Bennett. The song, "Bad Boy", featured Young Thug and debuted at number 22 on the Hot 100. - needs a ref
• Quite a few duplicate wikilinks to remove
• Higgins was among the ranks of openly vulnerable artists born from the emo rap scene inspired by West's influential fourth album, 808s & Heartbreak (2008).[87] Billboard writer Michael Saponara claimed, "If West and his sparse 808s were a tree, it would have grown another branch with the blossoming art displayed by fellow Chicago native Juice WRLD in 2018." - this is a solid quotation, but it doesn't really say more than the previous sentence: that 808s influenced Juice. Perhaps a reframing: put the quotation first, then the other sentence, to say 808s influence Juice and then that he wasn't the only one?
• "I was singing 'Street Lights'... - "Street Lights" should be in double marks, even inside a quotation
  • Is it possible to reduce this quotation? Wikipedia is not censored, but there isn't a need to have "nigga" present. Also bracket "Kanye" → [West] for style
• His other influences included: Wu-Tang Clan... - don't need the colon
• With a penchant for short, hook-heavy songs, Higgins seemed a leading figure for the current era of hip-hop. In 2018, the streaming platform Spotify named "emo rap" its fastest growing genre. Higgins achieved arguably the most mainstream success of any artist in the sub-genre. This was boosted by his collaboration with Panic! At the Disco frontman Brendon Urie. - some bold claims in here, so please attribute to Complex and/or the author of the article (Rindner), preferably quoting
• Higgins himself considered the emo label to be both negative and positive. He felt that music sometimes has to be a bit dark to reflect his belief that the world is not really a light or a happy place - can you connect these sentences for flow?
• ditto for When he did write a song, it usually began with hearing a beat and instantaneously conceiving an idea.[101] Higgins sometimes found himself alone with an idea for a song and afraid that he would be unable to remember it hours later after arriving at the studio
• Higgins saw the value in his position as one of very few contemporary SoundCloud artists who could compose soul-bearing ballads and odes but remain comfortable freestyle rapping over classic hip hop beats. - again, please attribute to Complex/Rindner. Same goes for the next sentence, which ideally should be rephrased, and probably for everything lifted from the Complex coverage
  • Why are there so many inline refs to this article when sentences without quotations follow each other?
• I'm not sure how the first paragraph in the lyrical themes subsection relates to his lyrical themes, it's more about his artistry and song conception
• Apply what I said about the Complex coverage to the Hypebeast/Maduakolam article. I also think it would be good for Though not entirely groundbreaking, his musical approach provided a sense of familiarity that heartbroken adolescents of the current generation could gravitate towards to be rewritten to be clearer and less flowery
• It doesn't need to reintroduce his mother in the personal life section when the early life section already did and discussed her.
• Law enforcement officials later revealed they found three handguns and 70 lb (32 kg) of marijuana on the aircraft is this - certainly the guns part - relevant?
• I'd combine the last three death section paragraphs into one and reorder a little: seizure, hospital, medical examiner, funeral and attendees
• The pilot contacted authorities when he saw people carrying guns on the plane that he had not been made aware of - can be removed, it's just restating information from above and unnecessary in the context anyway.
• Harry Dean, 27, of Chicago and Christopher Long, 36, of California were both arrested on gun charges, released immediately thereafter and given a court date for early the following year. - irrelevant to Juice. If there were a separate article about his death, then the plane search details would have a place, but not on Juice's bio.
• The rapper had been under suspicion by the Federal authorities as a month earlier an incident occurred before he departed for Australia which prompted a search of his plane.[118] Badazz gave an interview threatening violence upon the pilot, before later in the interview calming down and reflecting on the dangers of young artists suddenly being overwhelmed with money. - the prose here needs significantly improving. Restructuring the sentences and appropriate punctuation are my suggestions (I don't want to just tell you what to write)
• Need prose improvements for the next paragraph (beginning Rapper Ski Mask the Slump God, his close friend...), too
• Introducing his mother again?
• Way too long a quotation from his mother. Cut it down or summarize, as the prose had started
• 21st birthday → twenty-first
• Since the concert tours aren't in a table, there's no need to have notes in small text
• Not enough awards to separate by organization, just put them all in one table
• Media:
  • change the image in 2018–2019 section to upright to meet the size formatting MOS.
  • there is no specific discussion in the article of either of the song clips used, so I see no valid fair use rationale for either. I also don't think that this bio would really qualify for two; he had a short career with no significant change in style

Kingsif (talk) 19:45, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.