Talk:Jugurthine War

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Jugurthine War article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Military history: African / Roman & Byzantine / Classical

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	African military history task force
	Roman and Byzantine military history task force
	Classical warfare task force (c. 700 BC – c. 500 AD)

Classical Greece and Rome High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, a group of contributors interested in Wikipedia's articles on classics. If you would like to join the WikiProject or learn how to contribute, please see our project page. If you need assistance from a classicist, please see our talk page.Classical Greece and RomeWikipedia:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeTemplate:WikiProject Classical Greece and RomeClassical Greece and Rome articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Former countries

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles

Africa: Algeria

	Africa portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.
	Algeria portal This article is supported by WikiProject Algeria (assessed as Low-importance).

Berbers

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Berbers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Berbers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BerbersWikipedia:WikiProject BerbersTemplate:WikiProject BerbersBerbers articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Tunisia Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Tunisia, an attempt to better organize information in articles related to Tunisia. For more information, visit the project page.TunisiaWikipedia:WikiProject TunisiaTemplate:WikiProject TunisiaTunisia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Untitled

I thought, Jughurtha died in prison, 7 days in dungeon.

Untitled

I feel it significant to note that this article seems to be written entirely (or almost entirely) from Sallust's "The Jugurthine War." While this is not necessarily a bad thing, as this is one of the most complete histories of the war that we have, I think it is important to realize that most of the information in this article comes from a single source and carries with it that source's not-so-thinly-veiled biases. A major changing of the article is perhaps unnecessary, but a disclaimer of sorts could be helpful.

-More importantly, maybe, I feel that this article is simply not very well written. It is rather unsophisticated in its approach and language, and simply doesn't read very well. I may attempt to fix the language somewhat without actually changing any of the information soon if I can find the time.

130.64.31.197 (talk) 17:58, 20 September 2011 (UTC)Eilos[reply]

RE: Concerns on source bias

How do people feel about the work of Ober and Strauss in Anatomy of Error on the Jugurthine War? 99.59.128.43 (talk) 14:35, 28 January 2014 (UTC) Joseph Paul[reply]

"Filed objection" (moved here from article)

Filed Objection: The cited "Saluste" in "Jugurtinian Wars" clearly states that Jugurtha was the nephew of the King Massinissa, through his father(brother of Massinissa) and his concubine. Having a personal relationship with Jugurtha, Saluste also qualifies Jugurtha's nephewsMacipsa and his brother, as toddlers - whom Rome favored for the throne, for obvious reasons - in place of Jugurtha who in his 20s, had already won more than one war, on behalf of Rome, and was the assigned commander of the King's (Massinissa) army, by trust and merit. Your gibbrish below and elsewhere, is to be put in the same category as the rest of your "opinions", starting with the placing the Amazigh People and Heritage, in the 7th and 8th century. The rest of your account of the Amazigh heritage and culture, contradicts what you/author are obligated to consider. A 1000s of years of history and evolution, which amongst other things has produced and Alphabet and a grammar of many branches. The first written mention and relating the word Barbarians by Rome, is to be found in the Salust account of the Jugurtinian wars, and not before. For Catalania to be the "commercial partner" of the Phoenicians instead of the Numedians, you qualify as "with nothing/products to offer", one has to assume some superiority, which the Numidian Army, under Jugurtha acquired for Rome, in one battle. Your/author inconsistencies are of the same king found in the islamic stories and those of the analphabet psychopath prophet. (For IP 173.17.204.81)

Dubious

This article has a fair amount of fairly dubious information. Among other things:

Sallust lived in the 1st century, and so could not have written about the "Fall of the Roman Empire"
The historicity of the Marian reforms are disputed at best, so reference to that seems to be wrong.
Lynda Telfort, Sulla: A Dictator Reconsidered does not look like a reputable source -- it is written by an amateur with no formal training and a fair amount of culture war axes to grind
A lot of the commentary seems to parrot Sallust's analysis on events (especially regarding the putative corruption of the Roman Senate). While Sallust is a crucial source, he's also an incredibly biased one and not all his claims should be taken at face value.

71.167.7.218 (talk) 05:50, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]