Talk:Juanita Brooks/Archive 1

Archive 1

Is Juanita Brooks an anti-mormon?

I don't think so. She went to church her whole life, raised her kids in the gospel, etc. In her books, it seems she sought the truth, even when it was painful. What evidence do we have that she was critical of the church? Wadsworth 21:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Brooks is best (if not solely) known for her works condemning the Church, which are a mainstay of anti-Mormon book vendors nationwide. Her Wikipedia bio only lists two books, both of which condemn the Church. I think that pretty much proves my point, and that means that it is a violation of the Neutrality Policy to quote her as an "historical expert" without noting that fact. -- Critic-tt-Arms

I read both of those books, the one on John D. Lee, and the one on the massacre. I'm a member of the church, and it didn't look to me like she was condemning it at all. Now, there was certainly a coverup of the whole massacre affair, and John D. Lee certainly got the raw end of the stick... but this was Brigham Young in survival mode. You can't really blame him, I think. What can you cite in any of her books that shows that she is critical? Wadsworth 22:10, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I concur, Brooks is not anti-Mormon. Having read most/all of her material, I think she is careful neither to praise or blame the church, using a historian's objectivity as her primary style. Brooks was an "active" Mormon throughout her life. She was discouraged with the Church's reticence and secrecy surrounding the Massacre, was denied an interview with the President of the Church (by J. Reuban Clark, I think) to discuss using church resources, and was (on one occasion, at least) attacked from her local pulpit, but she never denounced the church or held herself apart from it. In a well known quote (I have it somewhere), she stated that it was best for her to move quietly on the edges of the church so that she could continue to have some influence. From her writing, I suspect both her church participation and her interest in presenting an accurate historical account were sincere. A recent edition of Brooks' book contains an introduction by non-Mormon historian Jan Shipps which has some interesting insights. WBardwin 00:16, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I just got a message from Critic-at-Arms, the fellow who started this dialog. He had confused Juanita Brooks with Fawn Brodie. :) He blames it on either early senility or lack of sleep. :) Wadsworth 04:19, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Appropriate reference?

Does anyone know what material from Bringhurst's "Fawn McKay Brodie: A Biographers Life" was used in the article? Does it talk about Brooks and her work? Has any editor here read it? WBardwin 18:05, 13 April 2006 (UTC) Bold textPeople who use this site are dumb people. Use a different one. Thank You — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.113.120.249 (talk) 19:03, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

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Waneta Leone Leavitt

I love her memoirs, Quicksand and Cactus!'

[Brooks says that it was only after she attended school that she came to conform the spelling of her given name from Waneta. Brooks tells how her mother loved to attend the community of Bunkerville's regular dances and how it was that she was named after the beautiful maiden, Juanita, whom the tragic cowboy visited at the cantina or dancehall in the then-popular ballad Streets of Laredo........] --Justmeherenow March 2007 (UTC)

I do not understand that. The ballad "Streets of Laredo" that I am familiar with does not mention a Juanita nor a cantina. And it was popular with "Streets of Laredo" lyrics much later than when Juanita would have been named. Maybe some other song conflated with Streets of Laredo.. like the song El Paso where a tragic cowboy visits a cantina. But that girl was "Felina", not Juanita. So I really do not understand this quote at all.--Blue Tie 06:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I think you are confusing "Streets of Laredo" with a more contemporary CW song about El Paso (song) written by Marty Robbins. Robbins named his "maiden" Felina/Feleena. Streets of Laredo (song) on Wikipedia does not name a maiden at all. WBardwin 08:34, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

I had mentioned both of those songs. Neither of them mentions a Juanita. And I am unable to find any other "Streets of Larado" ballad. So the quote is confusing. --Blue Tie 09:59, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The Cowboy's Lament/Streets of Laredo may descend from an Irish and British ballad of the late eighteenth century, The Unfortunate Rake. Also note that country-western singer Marty Robbins' "El Paso" (1960) is likewise of this genre - i.e., is a multiple-versed, tragic ballad about a lonesome cowboy, a lovely dancehall maiden, sudden violence and mourning.

As for The Cowboy's Lament/Streets of Laredo itself, Austin E. and Alta S. Fife in Songs of the Cowboys (1966) say, "There are hundreds of texts, with variants so numerous that scholars will ever assemble and analyze them all" and note that versions which came to find their way into print, such Lomax's 1910 version, have often been Bowdlerized. One of the Fifes' sources "exaggerating somewhat, says that there were originally seventy stanzas, sixty-nine of which had to be whistled." [1]

What follows is a slightly more rakish and less Bowdlerized version of "The Cowboy's Lament" [scrolled up in the pink banner; ...

click "Show" to see....]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
_______ 'Twas once in my saddle I used to be happy 'Twas once in my saddle I used to be gay But I first took to drinking, then to gambling A shot from a six-shooter took my life away. Beat your drums lightly, play your fifes merrily Sing your dearth march as you bear me along Take me to the grave yard, lay the sod o'er me I'm a young cow-boy and know I've done wrong. - My curse let it rest, rest on the fair one Who drove me from friends that I loved and from home Who told me she loved me, just to deceive me My curse rest upon her, wherever she roam. Beat your drums lightly, play your fifes merrily Sing your dearth march as you bear me along Take me to the grave yard, lay the sod o'er me I'm a young cow-boy and know I've done wrong. - Oh she was fair, Oh she was lovely The belle of the Viliage the fairest of all But her heart was as cold as the snow on the mountains She gave me up for the glitter of gold. Beat your drums lightly, play your fifes merrily Sing your dearth march as you bear me along Take me to the grave yard, lay the sod o'er me I'm a young cow-boy and know I've done wrong. - I arrived in Galveston in old Texas Drinking and gambling I went to give o'er But, I met with a Greaser and my life he has finished Home and relations I ne'er shall see more. Beat your drums lightly, play your fifes merrily Sing your dearth march as you bear me along Take me to the grave yard, lay the sod o'er me I'm a young cow-boy and know I've done wrong. - Send for my Father. O send for my Mother Send for the surgeon to look at my wounds But I fear it is useless I feel I am dying I'm a young cow-boy cut down in my bloom. Beat your drums lightly, play your fifes merrily Sing your dearth march as you bear me along Take me to the grave yard, lay the sod o'er me I'm a young cow-boy and know I've done wrong. - Farewell my friends, farewell my relations My earthly career has cost me sore The cow-boy ceased talking, they knew he was dying His trials on earth, forever were o'er. Beat your drums lightly, play your fifes merrily Sing your dearth march as you bear me along Take me to the grave yard, lay the sod o'er me I'm a young cow-boy and know I've done wrong. - --From Songs of the Cowboys an 1908 version of "Cowboy's Lament," typographical errors unchanged

--Justmeherenow 01:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

When I was searching for youtubes of the variant "El Paso" famously recorded in the 50s by Marty Robbins, I came across a bulliten board post by someone looing for some anonymous parody version that included the lyrics:

"... the night it was murky, I chose Albuquerque ...

... where tacos are tacos and beans are refried"

Too bad he didn't find it!--Hodgson-Burnett's Secret Garden (talk) 23:43, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Apparently the song in question somtimes goes by the name A Love Affair in Mexico. Brooks's memoir,Quicksand & Cactus, relates that she was named after a character in a ballad about "the little Mexican girl who stabbed her American lover after he told her he was going back to his old sweetheart at home. 'My Juanity, I must leave you; I have come to say farewell' was the first line." Here it is, from Google Books:

"My Juanita, I must leave you,

I have come to say farewell;"

They were standing by a ruin

Where the sombre shadows fell;

"You will miss me for a season—

A brief season, then forget

E 'en this parting kiss I give you—

Juanita, your lids are wet.

 

"Crying? Why, my brave Juanita,

Do not weep because I go,

Don't be foolish, there's a good girl."

"But, Senor, I love you so."

"Love me? Yes, of course, querida.

And I love you, do not grieve."

"Ah, Senor, if you say truly,

You would never, never leave."

"Are you serious, dulce mia?

How your cheeks with roses glow,

And your black eyes flash like diamonds,

Fairest maid in Mexico.

I didn't think that our flirtation

Would leave an impress on your heart;

I return to wed a maiden

Of my country—we must part.

 

"One more kiss? I'll give you twenty."

Around her form his arm entwines;

They are nearer to the ruin,

Almost hid by clustering vines.

They have parted now forever;

Juanita leaves the place—alone,

In her eyes no tear drops glisten,

From her heart all love has flown.

 

In the morning, two vaqueros

Paused to rest them in the shade

And refresh them 'neath the shelter

By the clustering foliage made.

"Por Dios;" cried one vaquero,

As he pushed the vines apart—

There laid el Americano

With a dagger in his heart.

—A Book of Rocky Mountain Tales, by Richard Linthicum (volume sold by subscription at Denver, Colorado by W.F. Robinson & Co., 1892)

--Hodgson-Burnett's Secret Garden (talk) 06:14, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Googling around, I see the title mentioned in several folklore collections. Also, in the 1960s, folklorists Austin and Alta Fife prublished the following--what appears to be an oral descendant of Linthicum's composition, above (unless Linthicum's verse isn't largely original, in which case the Fifes' collected folk song would be the cousin of Linthcum's) in Cowboy and Western Songs, an expansion of N. Howard "Jack" Thorpe's 1908, first-of-its-genre Songs of the Cowboy. (This latter had already contained "Cowboy's Lament" ("Streets of Loredo"), albeit with a tune attached. In light of Marty Robbin's success with "El Paso"--I notice on youtube having been covered by the likes of The Tubes and The Grateful Dead--perhaps some tunesmiths on the cowboy-songfests circuit in the American West or the folk circuit in Nashville--even the guys who've done such laments as Eric Bogle's "No Man Land" in Ireland and elsewhere--should take notice. (Or maybe I should walk over to NYC's Village and commission a version, hmmm... )

I must leave you, my Juanita,/Though it almost breaks my heart;/I have told you, my Juanita,/Sometimes true lovers have to part./"I will miss you, my Juanita,/Though from you I'll be far away;/But you'll have another lover/Before, perhaps, another day./"You will miss me, my Juanita,/For perhaps one day and then forget;/Crying? Why, my brave Juanita?/Like dew drops your eyes are wet."/Juanita left the shelter,/And she left the place alone;/In her eye no teardrops glistened,/From her heart the love had flown./In the morning two braceros/Paused to rest there in the shade,/For siestas sought the shelter/Which the clustering foliage made./"Maia Dios!" cried one bracero/As he pushed the vines apart,/"Here lies one Americano/With a dagger in his heart."

_______

ps Illustrating the folk process, here is a youtube cover of "No Man's Land" (composed 1970s) and here is a response to the song's sentiment, "Willie McBride's Reply," matched to the same tune, and, according to its copyright, written in the late 90s, here is the song translated into German, and here is a spoof couplet (since, or so the parodist asserts, "there was no 19 year old Private William McBride killed in 1916"):

No, I didn’t die quick and I didn’t die clean,

I didn’t die at all, you propaganda machine.

--Hodgson-Burnett's Secret Garden (talk) 23:45, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Also see https://books.google.com/books?id=pbLA3HzgjW8C&pg=PA195&dq=#v=onepage&q&f=false --Hodgdon's secret garden (talk) 00:02, 8 April 2020 (UTC)