Talk:Jovan Naumović

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Rank and equivalent

Naumovic was an Armiski General, and commanded what would be a corps in UK/US/Canadian forces, consisting of just three divisions. Linking an officer with the rank of Armiski General to Army general or General is completely wrong. Niehorster (who is the source for this), provides a table of comparative ranks, and lists Lieutenant General as the equivalent, not General. I am reverting the revert (which is unsourced), which like the edit, was done without an edit summary and without an attempt at discussion. And BTW, please use edit summaries, and the policy is WP:BRD. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 10:22, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring behaviour over the issue of Armiski General needs to stop. The French system of ranks (like the Italian) included a rank of Général de corps d'armée, as well as Général d'armée. So the French and Yugoslav systems were not identical. The reason for the difference is that (in most armies) an army includes a number of corps, in the VKJ an army consisted of a number of divisions (and was therefore equivalent to a French, Italian, British or US corps. Armiski General in Naumovic's case is equivalent to Lieutenant General. That is what the source used in the article says. Your opinion about it is completely irrelevant. Either produce a reliable source that says Naumovic's rank was equivalent to General or back off. And use edit summaries. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 23:20, 22 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I have tagged the use of the link to Army general as needing a quote, because I do not have the source at hand and don't read Serbian. The reason I have done this is because the quote needs to state that "army general" is equivalent to general, not just that his rank was "Armiski General". Failure to engage here on the talk page and the lack of edit summaries is not helpful either. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 22:45, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The quote needs to be in English so editors can read it. Google Translate indicates the quote provided doesn't even mention Naumovic, "DIVIZNI HANI DRAGIŠA Pandurović About Army djeneral ILIJA Brassica". Peacemaker67 (send... over) 13:16, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The reference given for the rank is at footnote 10 on page 105, and when translated, it states "Jovan Naumović, army general, commander of the III Army District." We already knew that. It says Armiski General, and doesn't say that is equivalent to army general. That is what is OR. We have a source that clearly states Armiski General is equivalent to US LTG, but no source for this Armiski General = army general. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 15:02, 24 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Rank structure of Kingdom of Yugoslavia and they aren't any equivalent. Only Voivoda have equivalent in Field Marshal. Corps General was left out in that time but it is French ranking system and not from today but form 1918. ^{Snake bgd} 20:35, 26 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Look mate, WP can't be used as a reference for WP. That's called WP:CIRCULAR. You need an actual reliable secondary source. I have one (Niehorster), you don't. Until you do, just back off. You aren't right because you think you are. No-one cares what you believe is right, it's about what you have a reliable source for. Any further disruption without producing a reliable source is going to result in a report at WP:ANI. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 22:51, 26 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That's yours and that historian interpretation of my country history don't threaten me that you gonna report me because that source is like blog and not reliable i add source and you remove it. For that you can get report because Army General is General of Army and not Lt. General.

Reference is:

GENERAL OF DIVISION, DRAGIŠA PANDUROVIĆ ABOUT GENERAL OF ARMY, ILIJA BRAŠIĆ

and Line before is: Јован Наумовић, армијски ђенерал, командант III армијске области. translated is Jovan Naumović army general, commander of 3rd army district.

In text there is: Поред овог, у списатељској заоставштини ђенерала Драгише Д. Пандуровића, налазе се још и „брзи портрети” следећих армијских ђенерала: Милорада Петровића Лорда, Милутина Недића, Милана Раденковића, Драгослава Миљковића, Димитрија Живковића, Владимира Цукавца, Петра Недељковића, Јована Наумовића и Душана Трифуновића. Translated: In addition to this, the legacy of a writer general Dragiša D. Pandurović, there are also "quick portraits" of army general's following: Milorad Petrović Lord, Milutin Nedić, Milan Radenković, Dragoslav Miljković, Dimitrija Živković, Vladimir Čukavac, Petar Nedeljković, Jovan Naumović and Dusan Trifunović. All of them where army generals and not Lt. Generals because Yugoslavia didn't use USA ranking system. They ranking system where from French army without Corps General witch could be Lt. General. ^{Snake bgd} 13:29, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your source does not say that. You say that. Sadly, you are not a reliable source. Niehorster does not say they are Lieutenant Generals, he says Armiski djeneral is equivalent to a WWII US LTG, and that is what I have pointed out with my edits. You have no source for your contention, and your continued insistence that you are right is disruptive. Peacemaker67 (send... over) 22:24, 27 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]