Talk:Joseph Estrada/Archive 1

Archive 1

What are his achievments?

What are the achievements of Press. Joseph Estrada

He made movies. He was an accomplished actor. He was able to get an unprecedented majority of the Filipino people to vote him in as President of The Philippines. He was and still is a celebrity, to name but a few of his 'achievements.' Many people loved him, and still do to this very day.

Interestingly, there is a story, whether true or not, of a movie theatre packed with fans to see one of his newly released films, in Mindanao. The story goes, that when Erap was confronted with his enemies and when things were looking dire for their mega-star of the silver screen, some in the audience pulled out their guns and started shooting at the screen in hopes of taking out his adversaries!

It's the Philippines. And objectively speaking, he is merely a reflection of what the people wanted or even demanded, at that time ... The 'people' put him in. The 'people' took him out. Conversely perhaps, the jueteng scandal was what did him in, and not so much as a "resurgence" since it was always there, but one who brought attention to it. Nevertheless the more notable 'achievement' was in providing the Filipino a means by which to see the corruption that is rampant in government, and not just in Erap ("pare" spelled backwards), but in and of their leaders, as well as proving the existence of a certain 'power' that many perhaps are unaware of and of which they possess. --Drdequit (2005-04-08 17:58:01)

The Mindanao story you mentioned there is true, but it was not an Erap movie that the people were watching. It was a Fernando Poe film. I remember having read about this during the 2004 Philippine elections, where Fernando Poe run for President. I just can't remember what or where it is. --emanlerona 16:09, 24 November 2006

I don't know. But, I don't know why people keep on saying Erap should not be guilty. There excuse is "walang ebidensya". Excuse me???? Of course there is so many!!! Just ask Chavit Singson --121.97.248.236 06:30, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

It is a shame that people believe Mr. Singson, who is the only "evidence" in the impeachment trial, who is charged by a U.S court judge a very corrupt politician- http://www.pinoyexchange.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-125761.html . The impeachment trial was unceremoniously disrupted and discontinued and the issues on hand were brought to the parliament of the streets. This unconstitutional removal of Estrada was a cause of not opening of the 2nd envelope. When it was opened by Senator Pimintel on February 2001, it revealed that Jaime Dichavez and not Estrada owned the "Jose Velarde Account"(http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-29648010_ITM). It was opened in front of both the local and foreign media.- Philippinepresidency (talk) 08:41, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

before you comment about Erap being guilty, you should know the reason why he is convicted. the real deal is that no one knows the truth about his conviction. it could be that this is due to his enemies that surround him that are envy of him thats why they plan to let him down. or it could be due to his mistakes..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.133.222.254 (talk) 02:10, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Achievements? This is a valid question and should actually be treated seriously with respect to how the article was written. The article excludes information that are in one way or another in favor of Erap. More than 50% of the article is about Erap's trial. The other parts seem to build towards or revolves around it. This article is not balanced and should be fixed in style and content.--Mendz 12:10, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

- There are many hints that Estrada refused the power deal with an Argentine Company (Arroyo did) - he refused helping chavit Singson with Jueteng and similar money - he was economically more successful than later his vice-president According to Dr. Benjamin Diokno, UP college of Economics the comparison between Estrada and Arroyo in different to the opinion of a few politicians. "The 1998 economic performance should not be attributed to Estrada since policy action work with a lag. Estrada assumed office in July 1998, amid the East Asian crisis of 1997, which he had nothing to do with. In short, Estrada should be responsible for the economy’s performance in 1999 and 2000 and Arroyo from 2001 to date, since she assumed power in January 2001. GDP: Estrada—3.9 percent Arroyo—4.5 (the difference is the election spending in 2004 and the increasing remittances of the OFWs. As percentage of GDP, remittances have increased to 13.5 percent of GDP. But why should Arroyo get credit for these remittances? Filipinos have been leaving the country because not enough jobs are being created at home!). - In a Speach to the Parish Pastoral Council for Responsible Voting (PPCRV) Melendres said: "What happened to our biggest textile manufacturers? U-Tex (Universal Textiles) and Gentex (General Textiles) were forced to close. And that includes tire manufacturer Sime Darby." - "Thanks but no thanks to Mrs. Arroyo and then President Fidel Ramos but now we are importing agricultural products.". - Archbishop Oscar V. Cruz added: "Millions of Filipinos precisely suffer from joblessness. The other millions of workers receive starvation salaries. The rest of the million Filipinos have to leave their homes and families in order to find work abroad."Truth222 (talk) 22:59, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

EDSA III

Would someone familiar with the situation look at article EDSA III and see if it should be referenced from here? That article is linked from EDSA II, but since EDSA III mentions Estrada particularly perhaps it should have a link. Just wondering... Shenme 21:55, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

Oh good, there's an article about that now. I made a link to it. Coffee 01:21, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Technically, with respect to the motivation and success of EDSA I and EDSA II, there is no "EDSA III". The term "EDSA III" was a political and media hype. For an historic event to be called "EDSA", besides it happening on EDSA, first and foremost, it should achieve its goal: EDSA I resulted to the ouster of Pres. Marcos; and EDSA II resulted to the ouster of Pres. Estrada. The spirit of "EDSA" is characterized by a (relatively) peaceful rally that resulted in favor of the activists and, therefore, becoming a major turning point in Philippine history. Although the event for which it is used did make its mark in Philippine history, "EDSA III", the term, is a mistake. "EDSA III" is a barbaric corruption of the true meaning of "EDSA".--Mendz 12:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

What's in a name?

I feel some mention should be made of his son Jinggoy who was also accused (convicted?) of embezzlement. More improtantly, I'd like to see a mention of the false names Erap used to hide money, including Jose Velarde and Kevin Garcia - Kevingarcia 19:32, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Joseph Estrada, article not found!

I have a problem in opening the article "Joseph Estrada" because Wikipedia is saying that the mentioned article doesn't exist. Does anyone have the same problem? - A-yao 07:32, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. I can see the article now. What really happened in the past few days? - A-yao 05:21, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Move to "Joseph Ejercito Estrada"

How about this be moved to "Joseph Ejercito Estrada" instead of it being moved to "Joseph Estrada?" Pangulo.ph says that his historically-accurate name is indeed Joseph Ejercito Estrada and I agree..

And Mandy Moore's historically-accurate name is indeed Amanda Leigh Moore yet we use Mandy Moore. WP:NC says we use the most popular name. --Howard the Duck 16:43, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Legacy section

The "Legacy" section contains many unsourced claims regarding Estrada's leadership failings. In contrast to the sections addressing corruption allegations, which appear to be neutral, the author of this section exhibits fairly transparent bias and makes use of weasel words, especially in sentences such as, "Though many Filipinos do not realize it, he may be the worst ever president of the Philippines in terms of management style and economic reforms or improvements."

wat are the programs and achievements of pres. estrada —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.213.173.14 (talk) 09:02, August 24, 2007 (UTC)

Incredibly biased and unfair wikipedia article

I am not Filipino and I have not followed Philippines politics except from a distance. I have no opinion on whether former President Estrada is corrupt or not. I first found out about him today through reading a Fox News Report.

When I read this wikipedia article, I was very surprised by the bias of the content. I'll give an example. President Estrada accuses a newspaper of bias (stated in the article). There is no mention of details so of course, his accusation sounds false. If you read through the article, it lists all of Estrada's deficiencies (ran with gangs, displeased his parents, drinks with shady characters) but doesn't say anything positive about him that I could find. There is no mention of how he rose from poverty (just a mention that he was not as poor as people think) and there is no mention of any achievements as an actor or as a president and from what I understand, he took a very strong anti-corruption position and the same court he created was the one that convicted him.

I have normally been very impressed by the quality of wikipedia articles and this is the reason for me writing this comment. I really hope that someone who is "objective" can rewrite this article so I can see the "pros" and "cons" of former president Estrada and make a decision myself. I am very glad that this article has been identified as biased. I look forward to its rewrite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.103.214.64 (talk) 12:52, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

I am a Filipino, and I agree with you completely. This particular line most represents the inappropriate content to put in an encyclopedia article for me: "Joseph Estrada rose from obscurity to having been top Filipino film star, then hit the mark, by claiming the Presidency until destiny sent him to jail". The whole article is filled with melodramatic comments and soap-opera inspired writings. I won't make changes myself, since I'm not one who keeps track on my country's politics, but I will make changes wherever possible. --124.104.35.29 16:08, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

In fairness to Erap, I think the article should have a balanced entry on his achievements and on his misgivings. The section(s) focusing on his trial has too much detail but there is no section describing his achievements in politics. In fact, there was even no mention of his term as Vice-President. This article should be fixed to remove the bias expressed in style and content.--Mendz 12:03, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

To those who are unfamiliar with Erap Estrada's time in office, it may seem strange considering the severity of the accusations already recounted but if anything the article doesn't bring up even half of the controversies he was involved in, some of which are even more serious.

For example there is no or only brief mention of

(1) The BW scandal where BW a company with only a prospective bingo operation with assets in the neighborhood of $2 million dollars was speculated on under the watch of his administration and came to have a market value at its peak in the BILLIONS of dollars matching that of the largest companies in the Philippines like Ayala Land Inc. and SM Prime Holdings. This scandal badly tarnished and made a mockery of the Philippine stock market. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0WDP/is_2000_March_13/ai_60067176/

(2) Kickbacks or commissions he is rumored to have received for facilitating the merger of Equitable Bank and PCI Bank, a merger that involved the Government Service Insurance System (the government employee pension fund) putting up a significant stake. http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1417378

(3) Kickbacks or commissions he allegedly received for "facilitating" the sale of Philippine Long Distance and Telephone (PLDT) to outside investors. Just recently his former Philippines National Police Chief and ally now Senator Panfilo Lacson provided more details and has implicated Estrada in coercing and intimidating a significant minority shareholder into selling their stake in PLDT. http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/business/09/15/09/yuchengco-confirms-being-forced-sell-pldt-stake

(4) Intimidation and calling for advertisers to boycott the mass circulation newspaper The Philippine Daily Inquirer for its negative portrayal of him. http://www.sheridanprasso.com/stars-Letty_Jimenez.htm

(5) The mysterious sale of another mass circulation newspaper that was critical of Estrada, The Manila Times, which was accompanied by a plaintive apology from its erstwhile owner. http://www.philsol.nl/A99b/Press-Mangahas-july99.htm

(6) The mysterious suspected to be politically motivated killings of political public relations operative Bubby Dacer, informer Edgar Bentain, and police operative John Campos in separate incidents all related in that they were known to or suspected to have been the source of politically damaging information that compromised or had the potential to further compromise Estrada. Singson testified against Estrada ostensibly because he like the previous three knew things and he believed there had been a pre-emptive attempt on his life to silence him. http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/nation/09/24/09/doj-urged-ask-lacson-about-bentain-murder

These are all in addition to the jueteng scandal that was merely the proximate cause for Estrada's eviction from the presidency. If anything the article is far too lenient and that is not even including his lesser more mundane failures. For example there isn't any mention of his known propensity to sleep through sessions of the senate when he was a senator or his lack of bills sponsored. As for achievements, what achievements are there to speak of? Despite Thailand being the universally acknowledged epicenter of the Asian financial crisis and the Philippines being generally considered in better shape to weather the crisis at the outset, by the end of it the Philippine peso had fallen further than the Thai baht. That is how dispiriting and inept the Estrada presidency was.121.54.92.85 (talk) 16:20, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Rmcsamson removed the entry referring to Joseph Estrada's inclusion in the List of Ateneo de Manila University people in the Joseph Estrada article.

The text removed is irrelevant in the lead of the article. Rmcsamson 15:52, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Joseph Estrada's inclusion in the List of ateneo de manila university people has been moved to the "Early life and career" section, right before the reference about his dropping out of college. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.2.247.70 (talk) 16:01, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Rmcsamson removed the reference to Estrada's inclusion in the List of Ateneo de Manila University people from the Joseph Estrada article. He claims that the information is redundant despite the fact that not all ateneo alumni are on the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.2.247.70 (talk) 16:18, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The information about him in the list is already stated in the preceding sentence. Referring to the list as part of the paragraph is irrelevant. The argument regarding the non-inclusion of all Ateneo alumni in the said list is better addressed in the discussion page of that article. Rmcsamson 16:26, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The information is not stated in the preceding sentence since it talks about Estrada's elementary education. The sentence Rmcsamson deleted talks about Estrada's inclusion in the list of notable people as stated in List of Ateneo de Manila University people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.2.247.70 (talk) 16:34, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The preceding sentences are quoted for the anonymous user's convenience: "Joseph Estrada attended the Ateneo de Manila for his elementary education, graduating in 1951. He went on to attend high school at the same institution, but was expelled during his second year of for non-academic reasons." The information in these sentences is the same information related to Joseph Estrada in the article the anonymous user insists, without basis, on linking as a sentence in this paragraph. This is redundant.Rmcsamson 16:42, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

The issue is the fact that Estrada is included in the notable people list as stated in List of Ateneo de Manila University people, not the fact that both articles talk about his elementary education and expulsion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.2.247.70 (talk) 16:45, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

This does not address the issue of redundancy. Rmcsamson 16:49, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Rmcsamson refuses to understand that the issue is Estrada's inclusion in the "notable people" list.

Again, the issue raised was redundancy. And again, the preceding sentences are quoted for the anonymous user's convenience: "Joseph Estrada attended the Ateneo de Manila for his elementary education, graduating in 1951. He went on to attend high school at the same institution, but was expelled during his second year of for non-academic reasons." The information in these sentences is the same information related to Joseph Estrada in the article the anonymous user insists, without basis, on linking as a sentence in this paragraph. This is redundant.Rmcsamson 16:54, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Rmcsamson refuses to understand that the issue is Estrada's inclusion in the "notable people" list, not "redundancy" or "vandalism" as he claims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.2.247.70 (talk) 16:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Again, the issue raised was redundancy. And again, the preceding sentences are quoted for the anonymous user's convenience: "Joseph Estrada attended the Ateneo de Manila for his elementary education, graduating in 1951. He went on to attend high school at the same institution, but was expelled during his second year of for non-academic reasons." The information in these sentences is the same information related to Joseph Estrada in the article the anonymous user insists, without basis, on linking as a sentence in this paragraph. This is redundant, and has not been addressed by the anonymous user's insistence on vandalism and resorting to personal attacks. Rmcsamson 16:59, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Vice President

Before he was President, he was the Vice-President. There should be mention of this in the article.--Mendz 11:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Pardon

On October 22, 20007, acting Justice Secretary Agnes Devanadera stated that Joseph Estrada is seeking a “full, free, and unconditional pardon” from President Gloria Macapagal-Arroyo. Estrada's lawyer Jose Flaminiano wrote Arroyo: "The time has come to end President Estrada's fight for justice and vindication before the courts. Today [Monday], we filed a withdrawal of his Motion for Reconsideration." Estrada, 70, stressed the "delicate condition" of his mother in asking for pardon.

--Florentino floro 12:14, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Here are some links: http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUKMNB0007120071025 http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22648731-23109,00.html 68.8.104.62 16:42, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Legal name

Is Joseph Estrada's legal name still "Jose M. Ejercito" with "Joseph E. Estrada" as an alias? Or is "Joseph E. Estrada" now his legal name? Or "Jose Estrada"? 122.53.102.230 (talk) 03:37, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Perjury case

The Sandiganbayan's special division, on June 27, 2008, ordered Estrada to file comment within 10 days, on the motion of the Ombudsman's Special Prosecutor to re-open the trial of his perjury case regarding 1999 statement of assets, liabilities and net worth (SALN). The court will also resolve Banco De Oro's (formerly Equitable PCI-Bank), plea that it cannot determine "without hazard to itself" who to turn over to the P1.1-billion Jose Velarde assets due to claims by Wellex Group / William Gatchalian and a Bureau of Internal Revenue stay order.newsinfo.inquirer.net, Estrada told to reply to request to start perjury trial--Florentino floro (talk) 10:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Archive 1

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Joseph Estrada/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

WikiBiography Project assesment: This article has a lot of info, but is very skimpy on references. Needs verification. -- Yksin 20:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 20:37, 26 February 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 15:09, 1 May 2016 (UTC)