Talk:Joseph Beaume

Contested deletion

This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because... It is a stub of a well known artist who has paintings displayed on Wikipedia from Commons. See the French article for a fuller biography. fr:Joseph Beaume. --PBS (talk) 18:54, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

@user:PriceDL what makes you think that this artist meets the requirement for speedy deletion? What makes an article on this person any less important than for example Charles Fortin? Did you spend any time reading the French article? If not how can you judge whether or not this artist meets notability requirements? -- PBS (talk) 18:59, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

@user:PBS Apologies, I was trying to fix lots of dead end pages and missed the French article. Out of context of the French article this would appear to meet WP:A7 for failing to list any information except date of birth and profession, and google unfortunately failed me on this occasion. Looking at the French article he does clearly meet WP:ARTIST. PriceDL (talk) 19:28, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

To help you decide here is a Google translation of the French article

He formed at the school of Gros, and began at the Salon of 1819 with a biblical scene: Nephtali and Rachel. Since that time he has taken part in all the official exhibitions which took place in Paris, except those of 1835, 1842, 1848 and 1849. A second-class medal was awarded in 1824 for two compositions representing, An Alain Chartier embraced during his sleep by Margaret of Scotland, the other the Invalid dying. This last picture, which received the honors of the engraving, obtained the highest praise: "There is naturalness and simplicity in this little scene," says the anonymous author of a Critical Review of the Salon, published by Dentu In 1825; The figures are perfectly drawn, perfectly touched and of a very remarkable precision. Beaume was not long in realizing the hopes which had been given by his beginning; The following paintings, which he sent to the Salon of 1827, won him a first-class medal: Hunting Stop, King Drinking, Rustic Interior. In the manner in which the artist treated familiar subjects, he was thought to be a continuator of Greuzo, the honest and sentimental painter who was the delight of Diderot. Beaume exhibited at the same Salon the Blessing and laying of the first stone of the monument of Louis XVI, a picture commissioned by the ministry of the king's house. From that time on, he led the genre and history in his works, painting sometimes scenes familiar to individuals, sometimes battles for the state, sometimes religious subjects for the churches. Beaume was appointed Knight of the Legion of Honor by decree of 30 April 1836 He is buried in the Père-Lachaise cemetery (59th Division). Artworks Napoleon I leaving the island of Elba - 1836 His main works in the historical genre are: The Last moments of the great Dauphine (Salon of 1834); Anne of Austria at the Val-de-Grâce Salon 1835); The Passage du Rhin in 1795 and the Combat de Diernstein (Salon 1836); The Battle of Albeck (Salon 1837); The Battle of Lutzen Salon 1838); The Battle of Opporto and the Battle of Bautsen (Salon The Battle of Toulouse (Salon 1840); The Combat of the Sig (Salon 1841); A second Battle of Opporto (Salon 1843); The Battle of the Alma (Salon 1855); The Death of Charles V. (Salon 1857); Louis XVII at the Salon Salon 1863); An episode of the retreat of Russia (Salon 1864). Several of these paintings appear in the historic galleries of Versailles. The first two are in Luxembourg; The latter belongs to the czar. Among the religious subjects painted by Beaume, we shall quote: Education of the Virgin (Salon 1844); The Meal of the Holy Family (Salon 1855); Moses exposed (Salon 1857); The Temptation of St. Anthony (Salon 1864); The Flight into Egypt (Salon 1866). As for the small pictures of genre executed by the Marseilles artist, they are too numerous for us to list them; It will suffice to recall those who have had the most success: Schoolmaster asleep, National Museum of Education (Rouen). The schoolmaster asleep (Salon 1831); A Storm Scene during the harvest (Salon 1833, collection of M. de Rothschild); The Main Hand (same Salon, collection of M. Tardif, in Marseilles); The Forgiveness (Engraved), the Reading of the Bible, Little Red Riding Hood (Salon 1840); The Shepherds of the Pyrenees (Salon 1845); The Exit of the church (Salon 1846, Luxembourg Museum); Dream of a young girl (Salon 1847); Idleness (Salon 1850); The Dime, a Lion Hunt (Salon 1853); The Season of Flowers, an Italian Family (Salon 1859); The Thieves and the Donkey, the Rendez-vous de chasse (Salon 1861); Marguerite with the wheel (Salon 1864); The unexpected Convives, the Pantin (Salon 1865).

-- PBS (talk) 19:26, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

@user:PriceDL There is no reason why a stub with cited reliable sources needs to have any more details than "for failing to list any information except date of birth and profession". That is the who point of stubs! What do you think stubs are for?

There was a reliable source given did you read it? If no how can you judge whether a stub is about a notable person? There is nothing in the link you gave WP:A7 that says that the text on the page has to contain anything that is notable for a stub. What do you this stubs are for? Just because there is little on the web does not mean that a person is not notable. If there is a lot then the need of a Wikipedia article is reduced.

BTW date of death is preferable to date of birth, as notable people tend to have their deaths recorded, but as they were not notable at birth it is quite possible that it is not recorded in the same details by contemporary sources.

-- PBS (talk) 19:40, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

@User:PBS Quoting WP:A7 A7 "applies to any article about a real person ... that does not indicate why its subject is important or significant." This article does not do that, as being a French painter is not sufficient to meet WP:ARTIST. The only accessible source for this article is a gallery of paintings, which also isn't sufficient to prove notability. Regardless, WP:A7 concerns attempts in the article to convey the importance of a person and not their actual notability. PriceDL (talk) 19:57, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

user:PriceDL you wrote "The only accessible source for this article is a gallery of paintings" There is a cited accessible source that meets the requirement of WP:V. Sources do not have to be accessible via the internet (WP:SOURCEACCESS and Wikipedia:Offline sources).

"applies to any article about a real person ... that does not indicate why its subject is important or significant". But the stub does indicate why the subject is important, see the quote from the reliable source "Joseph Beaume, a distinguished French painter aged 87 years". That is a point of view and the reason why it is not explicitly stated in the Wikipedia text. Next time I suggest that if a stub article is outside of your areas of expertise that you do not put the up for deletion before you have checked the sources, or followed the links both to other articles on Wikipedia (You could easily have found that Charles Fortin was one of his apprentices, and that there are several of his paintings displayed Wikipedia. If you look at the language links particularly to the subjects home country, then in cases like this one it is fairly easy to see that the man had both a legion of honour and exhibited regularly at the Salon. Hence it is easy to see that a stub such as this can be expanded by those who have access to the correct sources.

I do not consider myself to be an art historian, and I would never put an biography about a dead artist up for deletion. Instead I would raise my concerns at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Biography/Arts and entertainment and let those who know about the subject (and have access to sources about artists that I do not) make such a decision. --PBS (talk) 21:17, 19 April 2017 (UTC)