Talk:Jordan/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Chipmunkdavis (talk · contribs) 19:10, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

I am willing to review this article for GA status, and will do so very soon. I hope the long wait for a reviewer has not diminished the enthusiasm of editors here. CMD (talk) 19:10, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose is "clear and concise", without spelling and grammar errors:

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Cites reliable sources, where necessary:

   C. No original research:

   D. No copyright violations nor plagiarism:

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused (see summary style):

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

First impressions

This article has clearly had a lot of work put into it, however it has a variety of issues impeding GA status.

Prose

The prose feels somewhat stilted. This may be a language issue, and I am happy to help with this if requested and other issues are fixed. In terms of wider structure, this article contains a large number of short paragraphs (some only a single sentence) and very short subsections (some only a single paragraph). To me this indicates an excess of details not suited to such a high level article, per WP:SUMMARYSTYLE.

References

While the article has many sources, quite a few are deadlinks or have other issues, such as missing parameters or being directly copy and pasted from another article as visible text. This needs to be fixed for the article to be considered a GA. Additionally, the reference archive changes made by CyberbotII listed on the talkpage should be checked.

Coverage

GA articles should be focused on the topic but not too detailed, going back to the summary style guideline. This article is focused on the topic, but appears over-detailed. Its table of contents, for example, is longer than my screen. It is on the high end of recommended article size, but is not too long.

Neutrality

This article gives of the impression of wp:puffery, and would need to be rewritten to avoid this.

Stability

No long-term edit wars visible, although I encourage greater use of edit summaries.

Images

There are a lot of images on this page, and they are not well integrated into the article. Images should enhance the text, but not overburden it. While not required for GA status, I recommend reducing the number of images, and positioning them at clear points throughout the article. The gallery should be removed completely.

CMD (talk) 20:35, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

Some thoughts

Looking nice and I'm willing to help (admittedly my experience of Jordan is as a tourist). I noticed the use of the unit dunum or dunam. Jordan uses the metric dunum (1 decare or .1 hectares) so I added the conversion to km2. I might suggest merging the administrative units section into the geography section. Also I'm not sure why File:Jordan governorates named.svg isn't used since it has the names actually on the map (if there are errors, I think I can correct the map)? Erp (talk) 07:37, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

@Erp: Its correct. But it would be great if its some colors are changed. Makeandtoss (talk) 21:42, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

So what color scheme? I note that the Governorates of Jordan article mentions that the country is divided into three regions (North, Central, South) though I'm not sure this is official. We could three color the map. We might want to make this an image map template so that clicking on a governorate takes one to the appropriate article (though some might be too small). See Template:Jamaica parishes imagemap. I think I should be able to get the SVG image to disgorge the necessary info to make the imagemap. Erp (talk) 05:19, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

@Erp: I created this map of Amman a while ago File:Districts of Amman Template 3.png, its color range is good. I don't think the governorates of Jerash and Ajloun would be too small. they are noticeable enough as 400px as seen now currently in the article. --Makeandtoss (talk) 12:55, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

I've put up a clickable map and colors will be easy for me to change. On a slightly different topic, I note that the beginning of the politics section talks about "elected from 12 constituencies"; are these the same as the governorates? If so this should be made clear. In addition do the governorates and small units have their own local (elected or appointed) governments? Also the phrase "These are further divided into neighborhoods or subdivided into towns and villages", why the distinction? Are neighborhoods for urban areas and the others rural? BTW the article on nawahi state there are 52 but this article says there are 54. Erp (talk) 01:25, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the map. Yes constituencies are from governorates, I just edited it. Yes governorates have an elected local councils and governor. And yes neighborhoods are for urban and the others for rural. I changed 54 to 52. --Makeandtoss (talk) 21:00, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

I've rearranged the beginning of the Political section and moved the map (with what use to be the administrative section now in its caption) up there so readers can immediately get an idea of what a governorate is. I'm having a bit of difficulty in getting the House numbers to add up. There are 108 from the governorates (seats proportionally allocated to each? If so we might want to include how many for each in the table in the governorate article). 27 at large but that adds up to only 135 leaving 15 unaccounted for. Is the 15 the quota for women (I noticed the BBC reference says that prior to 2013 there were 12 for women and 12 for ethnic/religious minorities but now 15 for women (but no mention of any remaining quotas for minorities, I couldn't see a supporting reference for the statement of a quota for 9 Jordanian Christians). Might want to include a statement on how long parliament lasts (6 years or until dismissed?). On another point someone needs to go through and update any citation that is using a google book search URL; instead a book citation should list the relevant page(s) and have at most just the top level book url (or one that explicitly links to the page). Erp (talk) 04:11, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Passing comment

There is a good deal of information here, and those involved are to be commended on the work so far. However, the article would benefit from tidying up. When articles are poorly laid out, and the prose doesn't follow WP guidelines, they don't inspire confidence, as the assumption is that the content has been assembled in a similarly poor manner. Some articles evolve with editors putting in random information until the article gets so large that people feel it must be worthwhile. Size by itself, though, is not an indicator of quality. Evidence of careful selection and organisation of material is a good indicator - and this article lacks signs of good organisation. Evidence of following guidelines, and of decent quality prose is a good indicator - prose in the article doesn't quite meet MOS:CAPS and WP:Numbers. The layout doesn't quite follow the advice in WP:Layout. I have resolved a few obvious and easy errors, though there is more work to be done. I would recommend a good copyedit - Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors may be able to help. Reduce the number of small sub-sections such as in the Culture section (a sub-section per paragraph is inappropriate). Some parts of the article have very short paragraphs - sometimes just one sentence. This gives a poor impression, and impedes reading flow. Where appropriate group information into more comfortably sized paragraphs which allow the reader to digest the information in context before moving on to the next paragraph. Casual language such as "A successful mezze must of course have ..." should be replaced with neutral encyclopaedic language such as "A typical Jordanian meze would contain ..."

Jordan is a large, complex, important subject, and is a high profile article with over 2 million readers a year. As such we need to ensure the sources used are of decent quality. Currently the article mainly uses newspapers such as the Daily Mail (not regarded as a reliable source), travel guides, and dubious websites such as peashealth.com and kinghussein.gov.jo. A period spent researching into the full range of available sources, which might involve a visit to the local library or ordering some books from Amazon, would benefit the article and inspire greater confidence in the general reader. SilkTork ^{✔Tea time} 10:16, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Comment

I fixed the dead links and removed a couple of pictures, I hope they are all good now? Kindly place your concerns as bullet points so that they can be dealt with and crossed out. Makeandtoss (talk) 15:12, 2 March 2016 (UTC) Why should the gallery be removed? Makeandtoss (talk) 15:14, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Please see WP:Gallery. They should be used when they add information in a way text can not. In this article it does not add information. Regarding images in the rest of the article, they should be positioned in away that it is clear to the reader which part of the text they refer to, and they should enhance that text somehow. It is much better now, although a couple of sections (early history, religion, geography although geography text could be longer) remain slightly overfull. Consider alternating images left and right throughout the article per WP:SANDWICHING.

I am not going to bullet point concerns right now, given the nature of the ones I have. I summarised some of my concerns above, and SilkTork has added some useful thoughts as well (Erp's suggestion that you add names to the Governates image, although not a GA issue, would definitely improve the article). Working to address or at least alleviate those concerns should be the aim for the moment. CMD (talk) 19:15, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

I addressed some of your concerns. --Makeandtoss (talk) 21:55, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

You have indeed done so, and it is much improved. However, many concerns still stand. The article still contains many very short paragraphs, and seems greatly oversubsectioned. If you want a couple of more specific things to work on amid the general cleanup, I will suggest two. The lead is full references that do not exist in other areas of the article. This is expressly against WP:LEAD, as the lead should not have information not contained in the rest of the article, which is where citations should be. Consider as well perhaps shortening the lead to cover only essential information. For example, Is it essential to the understanding of Jordan to know that is troops were the most effective arab troops in the 1948 Arab-Israeli war? My other suggestion would be to review the flow of the Economy section. It has quite a few paragraphs that are far too short. Meanwhile some parts seem excessively detailed, whereas other parts seem uninformative. Examples of excessive detail include a statement by John Kerry, details of individual nuclear power plants (in two separate parts of the article), and details of what individual airports cover. Uninformative parts include sentences like "Jordan has nightclubs, discothèques and bars in Amman, Irbid, Aqaba, and many 4 and 5-star hotels", and frankly much of the main tourism section. The Economy section also has a large deal of redundancy, eg. "Science and Technology is the country's fastest developing economic sector... In fact, the Information and Communications Technology sector is the fastest growing sector in Jordan's economy with a 25 percent growth rate." Have you considered SilkTork's suggestion of asking for copyediting help? CMD (talk) 23:44, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

Did more improvements. The copyediting help requests take about a month, isn't that too long? Makeandtoss (talk) 17:52, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Copyediting requests would take awhile, but perhaps you'd want that time to further work on this article? I have not written out a detailed review, but the concerns I and others have raised so far remain unaddressed. As it is, I find that his article meets only 2 of the 6 GA criteria, and fixing those will take time too, likely much longer than the seven day normal GAN span. As an aside, I encourage you to when removing excessive detail from this article, to add it to subarticles where such detail would be more appropriate. CMD (talk) 06:05, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

"the capture of the west bank..." statement is quite necessary. Jordan was initially including the West Bank, and at one point was formally annexed. When Jordan lost the territory in 1967, it was a severe blow to the economy since most of the businesses were stationed in the West Bank. Also, the average person's views on the Arab-Israeli conflict is that the Arabs always lost the wars they had waged against Israel, Jordan is probably the only state that didn't. Its quite worth mentioning. About Kerry statement, its quite remarkable and deserves to be in the subsection. No? Makeandtoss (talk) 22:09, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

None of the information you have just listed about the west bank is remotely conveyed by the text under discussion. If you want that information to be conveyed, the text needs to be rewritten so it conveys that. (It also needs to be in the body rather than exclusively in the lead, per WP:LEAD, like much of the lead of this article.) Furthermore, this article is not meant to dispel the average person's views on the Arab-Israeli conflict, however that has been determined, but to give the reader an understanding of Jordan. (At any rate Egypt also scored military successes in those wars.) As for the Kerry comment, I do not, personally, find it remarkable that good air conditioners are in use in the United States, nor that Kerry commented on this. More relevantly, what does that sentence say about Jordan, and if it is necessary to convey an appropriate level of information about Jordan, could it be written more concisely? That sort of question pops to my mind a lot while reading this article. CMD (talk) 23:49, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

I didn't mean that. I meant that it should be mentioned that the West Bank was part of Jordan in its earliest stages, the military successes is just a side note. Anyway, can you please point out to a few concerns so I can address them? Because I have read this article too many times and so it has become difficult for me to locate anything inappropriate. Makeandtoss (talk) 13:32, 5 March 2016 (UTC)

Addressed almost all issues mentioned. Makeandtoss (talk) 21:46, 7 March 2016 (UTC)

Section-by-section concerns

This doesn't cover everything due to length concerns, for example most copy-editing concerns and some source reliability concerns are not covered, but hopefully it provides a useful guide. The overall comments I noted above about structure still stand. I again recommend when removing information from this page to put it on subpages to help improve those articles.

Lead

The lead still contains references and information that is nowhere else in the article, as opposed to the guidance in WP:LEAD. Specific issues:

• "Since the dawn of civilization, the country's location at the crossroads of the Middle East has served as a strategic nexus connecting Asia, Africa and Europe." is a long, wp:puffery sentence saying very little, and cited to a source SilkTork noted as unreliable above. The dawn of civilisation, whenever that was, occurred long before the concepts of Asia, Africa, and Europe even existed.
• "Archaeologists found evidence on inhabitance dating as far back as the Paleolithic period" is an example of unnecessary attribution common throughout this article. Sources can be mentioned if there is a need to, but there's clearly none here. Easily made more concise through something such as "Inhabited since the Paleolithic, ...".
• Is there anything special about Ammon, Moab, and Edom that leads to their being mentioned while former and later kingdoms are not?
• Similarly, the Nabataean kingdom seems out of place in a list otherwise consisting of the Roman and Ottoman Empires.
• No mention that Transjordan was established as a British protectorate.
• Is "The" part of the official name? If not it shouldn't be italicised, if so it should be in the infobox.
• The change to the King's title is not given context and doesn't seem very important given the change in the country name is already noted.
• The theme of the third paragraph is unclear (and it probably shouldn't start with "it")
• How is Jordan especially popular? Compared to what? Is the presence of western expats important enough to be in the lead at all?
• The claim to be the "safest" country is hugely subjective, reads as very puffery, and blows the citation way out of proportion.
• Noting "great hospitality" is again puffery. Safe refuge is also puffery, as well as being wrong. There are many safe refuges for Iraqi Christians. Pope Benedict's statement is highly out of place and unduly prominent being mentioned in the lead at all.
• There is no information about the wider demographics in the lead text.
• Similarly Tourism is especially mentioned out of all economic areas, despite tourism providing only 10% of GDP according to later on in this article, with the rest of the Economy summed up in one sentence. That this sentence, along with a second on tourism, are in a different paragraph is odd, reflecting a lack of structure in the lead.
• The reason given for Christian decline is in complete opposition to the source cited (whose reliability I question).
• Having "advanced status" in the EU ENP seems unimportant. I'm also unaware of the Euro-Mediterranean FTA being of any major importance.
• "Although Jordan has very few natural resources, like being the second poorest country in the world in terms of water resources per capita, it has large investments" is poorly worded and the point of it is unclear.
• "Highly skilled workforce" is an inherently relative term that needs a lot of context to be used, which this lead does not (and should not) provide.
• The anthem .ogg file partially obscures the English translation.
• The reason for the selection of cities in the infobox picture is unclear. It doesn't appear to be the top in population per List of cities in Jordan.
• The Independence box in the infobox should mention the UK.
• As with the text lead, consider whether information in the infobox would be better cited with more context elsewhere in the article.

Etymology

• Can't access the source, so I don't know what it's citing, but I very much doubt one source covers all the information here.
• 1921 was the establishment of the Emirate, not a renaming
• Just as the meaning of "Jordan" is explored, it may be worth giving short mention to the meaning of "Hashemite", if any.

History

• Here, and in a couple of other places, you use "See Also" notes which should be "Main" notes
• Instead of saying "One of the oldest human statues ever made by human civilisation" say something more useful like "Statue X is from the Y period, Z000 years ago".
• Details of archaeological digs seem out of place in the history section.
• Can't access Kleiner et al. source, but it lists pages "11-2" which is obviously wrong.
• The ancient kingdoms aren't kingdoms of Jordan, they're kingdoms in what is now Jordan. The picture chosen may not be the best one, as it is Israel/Judah-focused, with the colouring being irrelevant without that specific context.
• Again there's a lot of attribution of where information comes from, which is useful on more specific pages, but seems undue on a high-level article such as this one.
• The text says the Nabateans established Petra, but the image shows Petra as the capital of the earlier kingdom of Edom.
• Petra being a tourist attraction is information for elsewhere. More relevant would be something like "carved out temples including Al-Khazneh" (i.e. information about the cause of the attraction, rather than information of it being an attraction).
• Information about the Greek period lacks citations.
• The text goes from Hellenistic rule to Roman rule, and then in the next paragraph begins Roman history again.
• Information about the "spectacular Hellenistic site" (which would be better written as "best-preserved" or similar rather than "spectacular") fits in Tourism if it should be in this article. This also applies to the list of Roman ruins.
• It reads like there's a gap between direct Imperial rule and autonomy under the Ghassanids.
• No context provided for what the "Abbasid movement" is.
• The timeline of rulers should be integrated with the more detailed information about certain periods in the next paragraph.
• Considering the length of Ottoman rule, it's surprising that there's no mention of any effects it had on Jordan. The Jordanian government source used says it was mostly a period of stagnation, if other sources agree just mentioning this will be useful.
• The Muslim period subsection probably needs more sources.
• T.E. Lawrence information probably too specific this article, the mention of wider allied support is enough (although perhaps the French deserve specific mention along with the British).
• It'd be good to have a sentence indicating how Abdullah I was chosen to rule Transjordan.
• The text notes restrictions on sovereignty were removed by treaty in 1948, but does not give examples of what those were.
• Context as to why King Hussein sacked all his British soldiers and terminated prior agreements with the British would be useful.
• Details on specific battles are undue in this article.
• It would be worth mentioning explicitly that Jordan's agreement that the PLO represented the Palestinian people meant it had given up all claims on the West Bank (currently explicitly stated in geography).
• When mentioning the ascension to the throne of Abdullah II, the additional information about Prince Hassan is confusing without further information, and information about the namesake seems implicit enough due to the Roman numerals.
• The last paragraph seems outdated and unspecific. Rather than announcements, a very concise summary of the effects of the Arab Spring would be better.
• Understandably, the History section skews to having more content in recent history. More concision in independent history would however be favourable.

Geography

• Mention 34°E instead of 35°E if it's not bounded by 35°E.
• The Rift Valley is not "of" the River. If anything, it's the other way around, considering the valley goes all the way to the Red Sea while the river doesn't.
• The first paragraph should be split up, with the geographic boundaries and extremes in one part, and human geography such as cities in another.
• Perhaps move the Human Geography information to demographics to prevent duplication. Either way, human geography could use some expansion as well; information discussing the concentration of population in the west as opposed to the desert in the East for example.
• I'd personally move boundary changes to history, keeping this focused on present geography.
• The BBC link is dead, and the replacement page doesn't seem to have the information it cites here.
  There's a lot that seems lacking in this section. Some of the background from the existing Natural Resources section, for example (eg. sunlight and forest cover), could fit here, leaving the Economy section to deal more specifically with economic effects. Potential examples of information:
• Overall land area, north-south distance, perhaps west-east distance although due to Jordan's shape this isn't as useful.
• Major topographical features. Geography of Jordan is full of detail, but unfortunately lacking in sources. It could still provide inspiration for here.
• Mention of water features aside from the River Jordan.
• Note that the Dead Sea does have exiting flow. (Other information about the dead sea could be appropriate here, perhaps taken from current Tourism subsection.)
• A quick summary of Jordan's ecosystems and the biota they support.
• A quick summary of environmental pressures. Water pressure and desertification come to mind as possibilities, especially given the current drought in the Middle East.

Politics and government

• Information about subdivisions should be present in the text, not just in the caption.
• Information about Jordan's peace treaty should be in the foreign relations subsection.
• Does the King pick senators/governors from a pool of people or from anyone he knows?
• How are the independent politicians chosen?
• Are the Prime Minister and Cabinet taken from the Legislative bodies or are they separate?
• What is the length of the election cycle? Explicitly note as well that 2013 was the last election.
• The name of the Prime Minister would be good, as well as the date of appointment.
• Perhaps also mention the current crown prince.
• More detail on the power of the King and of the executive and legislative branches would be good.
• General information on the constitution should be mentioned here rather than in Crime subsection, as it deals with more than just crime.
• The first paragraph of Foreign Relations is dangerously close to the original text, I would suggest it falls afoul of WP:COPYVIO. Generally, this is more easily avoided through a greater variety of sources.
• Rather than a detail of the specific Likud proposal and Jordanian reaction, a general statement noting Jordan's support of Palestinian independence would be preferable.
• It is also probably worth noting here something about Jordan's monarch's role in Al-Aqsa.
• Arab League and OIC membership should be noted here and possibly discussed if either plays a major role in Jordan's foreign relations.
• Perhaps mention possible GCC membership?
• ENP info needs a source. The source from the lead would probably do.
• Mention of Syria is conspicuously absent here, including strikes against IS.
• "Jordanian Armed Forces field hospital in Afghanistan has since 2002 provided assistance to some 750,000 persons and has significantly reduced the suffering of people residing in areas where the hospital operates" is an oddly out-of-place sentence, which is very wp:puffery.
• "In some missions, the number of Jordanian troops was the second largest, the sources said" is similarly out of place, and doesn't carry much meaning or information. It is also another good example of unnecessary attribution.
• Information on the Judiciary in Crime and Law Enforcement lacks sources
• The text mentions three branches of courts, but then goes on to only discuss two, leaving "special" courts unexplained.
• What is the "Family Law"?
• Again, there is a lot of factors that contribute to safety, and numbers are better than vague statements such as "one of the safest countries in the world".
• "Female police officers are leading the way in Jordan" is similarly puffery, the information is delivered just as effectively with that phrase simply deleted.
• A lot of the rankings here are compared with other countries in the region, which is useful, but they should also be put into a global context. The mention of Jordan as 1st in Arab states and 78th globally is a good example, regional comparison first followed by a global comparison.

Economy

• The Economy section starts with notes about being in upper-middle income and having a growing GDP, but then immediately throws in a statistic of poverty. The poverty sentence should be moved to after GDP history, and perhaps context given for decrease over time? 2% isn't much, but presumably it was higher and decreased with increased GDP?
• Rather than simply saying Jordan has advanced status with the EU, explain the effects of that on the Economy.
• "The government employs between one-third and two-thirds of all workers" shows a huge range. Why the large range?
• There is a lot of repetition in this section.
• "Growth was expected to reach 3% by the end of 2012 and the IMF predicts GDP will increase by 3.5% in 2013, rising to 4.5% by 2017.[117] The inflation rate was forecast at 4.5% by the end of 2012.[117]" Very out of date.
• "The proportion of skilled workers in Jordan is among the highest in the region" is unsourced and is given with no context. Skilled in what industries?
• Unskilled labourers, including the many foreign ones, could perhaps be mentioned.
• "Jordan has hosted the World Economic Forum on the Middle East and North Africa six times and held it for the seventh time in 2013 at the Dead Sea" -> "Jordan has hosted the World Economic Forum on the Middle East and North Africa seven times."
• If there is a list of the largest five Jordanian companies, it should all come from one source. Personally I'd simply remove the list as overdetailed, unless a particular company completely dominates some industry or is otherwise unusual in importance, I wouldn't think it worth mentioning in this article. This applies to the entire Economy section.
• "In the past several years, demand has increased rapidly for housing and offices of foreign enterprises based in Jordan to better access the Iraqi market" has an old citation, and seems odd now. Is the Iraqi construction industry still a big draw?
• I'd remove the huge picture and UNESCO box in favour of one picture, so the tourism section fits in with the rest of the article.
• "Tourism accounted for 10%–12% of the country's Gross National Product in 2006" is uncited, and surely there are more recent figures? The last sentence of the section notes a drop in income, but gives no baseline figure to put that drop in context.
• Much of the tourism section reads like an advertisement rather than an encyclopaedia article.
• Why is Jordan's oil shale non-commercial? Too expensive to extract or refine? Combine all the shale information into one paragraph rather than split between paragraphs.
• Why is Jordan a transit country for Iraq? Iraq has its own ports.
• Why does Lloyd's List consider Aqaba so great? Capacity? Infrastructure?
• Rather than giving such detail about individual airports, stick to a summary.
• Information about terrestrial transport infrastructure is lacking. Presumably there's a large road system, is it restricted mostly to the west? Is there a rail system?
• As an example of duplication, nuclear industry is mentioned in Natural Resources and in Science and Technology.
  I feel that thought needs to be put into the structure of the Economy section. Are the current subsections the best way to arrange it? Do they reflect relative importance within the Jordanian Economy?

Demographics

• The city of Al-Salt is called "Al-Salt" in the rest of the article, but "Salt" here. It doesn't matter which one is used, so long as its consistent throughout the article.
• The Immigrants and Refugees subsection contains information about Jordanian citizens as well.
• Do many refugees obtain citizenship? The 1948 Palestinian refugees are mentioned as often having citizenship, but not the others.
• More context needs to be provided for the Palestinian citizenship/yellow card/green card situation. Presumably the revocation was on Palestinians living in the West Bank. How can the yellow card grant all the rights of Jordanian citizenship, but prevent resettlement into Jordan?
• When did various Iraqi refugees arrive?
• How many people is a "relatively large" western expatriate population?
• Jordan paid for 63% of the cost of supporting the refugees within its borders, not of the entire refugee crisis.
• Does the census include the illegal immigrants?
• Does Jordan have Shia, Ibadi, or other Muslim minorities, or are the Amahdis the 7% of non-Sunni Muslims?
• I'd remove the religion bar chart, it doesn't help much given there's only three bars and one completely dominates the others.
• What does it mean for a language to be "acknowledged widely"?
• Are there any rare minority languages?
• Consider adding information somewhere about how citizenship is obtained/passed down.

Culture

• The opening paragraph feels incongruous. If society is both "relatively traditional" and "cosmopolitan", this contradiction needs to be explained.
• More detail on what these traditions are would be good, as well as an explanation of the effects religion has on the culture.
• Rather than note the institutions that represent art, a short summary on the current state of art would be better. Is there a normal style?
• State the language of the musicians, presumably it's Arabic music.
• Is there anything special about any of these musicians? A list of museums does nothing to help the reader, or say anything about Jordan.
• Is much of the media state owned or privately owned? What factors lead to its position as 120th freest?
• How much internet penetration is there in Jordan?
• "Jordanian food can vary from extremely hot and spicy to mild" is a pretty meaningless statement.
• Meze/Mezze is spelt two different ways and is split into two separate paragraphs.
• How does the national Football team do in the AFC Cup?
• How good is the women's team?
• Numbers or other quantification is preferable to statements like "most popular", "gaining popularity", and "many people".
  Is the structure of the culture section reflective of importance within Jordanian culture? There definitely needs to be more information on the generalities, such as influence and history, than what is presented in the current first paragraph.

Health

• Why is the health service the best in the region?
• What are the figures for male/female life expectancy?
• What are the leading causes of death?

Education

• Comparisons to Turkey and Syria seem odd. Why those two? Why compare at all?
• Why the ranges in % of people in secondary/higher education?
• Is the compulsory education free? How many children go through primary education?

CMD (talk) 21:11, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I can address these issues. But if I want to add information, I don't seem to find inclusive sources. Aka I spend a lot of time googling for sources and more time adding these sources. How exactly should I do this? Makeandtoss (talk) 21:49, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Can you be more specific? Information simply can not be added without reliable sources, as covered by wp:reliable sources. In fact, there are a few questionable sources in the current article, and you should replace them if you find better ones, or remove information cited to them. If necessary, although English sources are preferred, you can use arabic sources if they are reliable and you are unable to find an English one. CMD (talk) 22:12, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

I mean, for example in education section. I can't seem to find a source that discusses all of this, so I will be forced to add a source for each point I want to add... Makeandtoss (talk) 13:31, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

I will be marking the issues I have addressed with red.. Makeandtoss (talk) 13:42, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with having a source for each added point. There's absolutely no limit on total source numbers per article. If anything it helps mitigate the risk of copyright violations. CMD (talk) 15:42, 9 March 2016 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: Issues addressed. Makeandtoss (talk) 22:00, 12 March 2016 (UTC)

I haven't checked throughout the whole list, but since the first line, "The lead still contains references and information that is nowhere else in the article, as opposed to the guidance in WP:LEAD", has not been addressed, that is not promising. There also remain throughout the article paragraphs that are far too short and subsections a paragraph long. When making your changes, you did not format your references. The above list is was not exhaustive, and as I said before fixing it would lake a lot of work. The fixes also need to move the article forward to GA status, and you should do more than the bare minimum to try and address concerns. CMD (talk) 01:10, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: Fixed. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:40, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

It doesn't looked fixed to me. How do you feel it has been fixed? CMD (talk) 16:49, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: I formatted the refs, removed kinghussein website, added refs from lead to rest of article, fixed size of paragraphs. Did I miss something ?Makeandtoss (talk) 17:31, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

There's still one citation in the lead not in the body. More importantly, it's not about the citation per se, but about the information content. For example, the Palestinian refugee number does not seem to be explained in the article. Furthermore yes, there are still multiple short paragraphs and short subsections throughout the article. CMD (talk) 18:20, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: Fixed the citation. Palestinian refugee number is in fact discussed in the first paragraph of the immigrants subsection. I honestly don't think there is more to be done to the short paragraphs and subsections; I can't add combine two irrelevant content/expand them/place them somewhere else. Makeandtoss (talk) 19:43, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

I actually think the situation of the Palestinians may need its own subsection since it seems to be quite complex and different than the other groups. Also cover how Jordanian citizenship is acquired (I gather that by birth it is only through the paternal line [does this apply even if the father is unknown?]). I put together some potential sources at User:Erp/Sandbox Jordan/Palestinians though I haven't yet evaluated them or started to synthesize something. If at that end it isn't long enough, reintegrate it with the whole. Erp (talk) 04:29, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

The lead states that 2 million Palestinian refugees live in Jordan. The body states that there are almost 2 million Palestinians, but says most are citizens. It then says granting citizenship is rare in recent years (which isn't in the source cited). Are the citizens included in the 2 million refugees in the lead? Are they refugees despite being citizens? Your comment of Erp's subpage explains a bit, but it's not obvious from the article.

Short paragraphs and subsections can be dealt with. Numerous country articles have dealt with them. A couple of exceptions could be admissible with good justification, but this article has quite a few. CMD (talk) 17:51, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

@Chipmunkdavis: I have removed the word refugees from the Palestinians in the lead. Example; in the 2015 census, there were about 600,000 Palestinians (no Jordanian citizenship) we can mention that the 1,400,000 are Palestinians with a Jordanian nationality, but that would be original research.. As far as I have looked, there's nowhere discussing this aspect in a detailed depth . Makeandtoss (talk) 19:06, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Removing the word refugees doesn't fix the problem, its still in a sentence that's about refugees. Regarding the body text, I'm unsure as to where all the current information is sourced from as it stands. Following through onto the specific Jordan link in the cited webpage, this page states that all non-Gaza Strip Palestinian refugees have Jordanian citizenship. This source also has some interesting info. CMD (talk) 22:51, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

The following are the notes from above. I've noted what I don't see as fully addressed, or don't understand how they've been addressed.

Extended content

"Since the dawn of civilization, the country's location at the crossroads of the Middle East has served as a strategic nexus connecting Asia, Africa and Europe." is a long, wp:puffery sentence saying very little, and cited to a source SilkTork noted as unreliable above. The dawn of civilisation, whenever that was, occurred long before the concepts of Asia, Africa, and Europe even existed. Still quite puffery, and quite close to the source. "Archaeologists found evidence on inhabitance dating as far back as the Paleolithic period" is an example of unnecessary attribution common throughout this article. Sources can be mentioned if there is a need to, but there's clearly none here. Easily made more concise through something such as "Inhabited since the Paleolithic, ...". Attribution removed, but I was not suggesting simply adding "Inhabited since the Paleolithic." as a standalone sentence. Is there anything special about Ammon, Moab, and Edom that leads to their being mentioned while former and later kingdoms are not? Remains unclear Similarly, the Nabataean kingdom seems out of place in a list otherwise consisting of the Roman and Ottoman Empires. Remains unclear No mention that Transjordan was established as a British protectorate. Unaddressed Is "The" part of the official name? If not it shouldn't be italicised, if so it should be in the infobox.  Done, although I think it may have gone the wrong way, given the UN notes the official English name lacks the starting The [1]. Conflicting sources would be welcome. The change to the King's title is not given context and doesn't seem very important given the change in the country name is already noted.  Done The theme of the third paragraph is unclear (and it probably shouldn't start with "it") Better, but still both it and the final paragraph cover similar topics in the Economy. How is Jordan especially popular? Compared to what? Is the presence of western expats important enough to be in the lead at all? Unaddressed The claim to be the "safest" country is hugely subjective, reads as very puffery, and blows the citation way out of proportion. Unaddressed Noting "great hospitality" is again puffery. Safe refuge is also puffery, as well as being wrong. There are many safe refuges for Iraqi Christians. Pope Benedict's statement is highly out of place and unduly prominent being mentioned in the lead at all.  Done There is no information about the wider demographics in the lead text.  Done Similarly Tourism is especially mentioned out of all economic areas, despite tourism providing only 10% of GDP according to later on in this article, with the rest of the Economy summed up in one sentence. That this sentence, along with a second on tourism, are in a different paragraph is odd, reflecting a lack of structure in the lead. Unaddressed The reason given for Christian decline is in complete opposition to the source cited (whose reliability I question).  Done, although a mention of Jordan being mostly Sunni I think would do well in the lead. Having "advanced status" in the EU ENP seems unimportant. I'm also unaware of the Euro-Mediterranean FTA being of any major importance. Unaddressed "Although Jordan has very few natural resources, like being the second poorest country in the world in terms of water resources per capita, it has large investments" is poorly worded and the point of it is unclear. Unaddressed "Highly skilled workforce" is an inherently relative term that needs a lot of context to be used, which this lead does not (and should not) provide.  Done The anthem .ogg file partially obscures the English translation.  Done, creative solution. The reason for the selection of cities in the infobox picture is unclear. It doesn't appear to be the top in population per List of cities in Jordan. Unaddressed The Independence box in the infobox should mention the UK. Unaddressed As with the text lead, consider whether information in the infobox would be better cited with more context elsewhere in the article. Etymology Can't access the source, so I don't know what it's citing, but I very much doubt one source covers all the information here. Discussion of English naming would do better from an English source. The French crusader name definitely isn't in that Arabic source. 1921 was the establishment of the Emirate, not a renaming  Done Just as the meaning of "Jordan" is explored, it may be worth giving short mention to the meaning of "Hashemite", if any. History Here, and in a couple of other places, you use "See Also" notes which should be "Main" notes  Done Instead of saying "One of the oldest human statues ever made by human civilisation" say something more useful like "Statue X is from the Y period, Z000 years ago". Still somewhat puffery without context on statue timelines. Details of archaeological digs seem out of place in the history section. Unaddressed Can't access Kleiner et al. source, but it lists pages "11-2" which is obviously wrong. What are the page numbers? The ancient kingdoms aren't kingdoms of Jordan, they're kingdoms in what is now Jordan. The picture chosen may not be the best one, as it is Israel/Judah-focused, with the colouring being irrelevant without that specific context.  Done, although I'd suggest adding colour names to the caption Again there's a lot of attribution of where information comes from, which is useful on more specific pages, but seems undue on a high-level article such as this one. Some parts of the history section still seem far more detailed than others without much reason. The text says the Nabateans established Petra, but the image shows Petra as the capital of the earlier kingdom of Edom.  Done Petra being a tourist attraction is information for elsewhere. More relevant would be something like "carved out temples including Al-Khazneh" (i.e. information about the cause of the attraction, rather than information of it being an attraction). Still out of place in the main text. Understandable in image caption. Information about the Greek period lacks citations.  Done The text goes from Hellenistic rule to Roman rule, and then in the next paragraph begins Roman history again. One really out of place sentence remains. Information about the "spectacular Hellenistic site" (which would be better written as "best-preserved" or similar rather than "spectacular") fits in Tourism if it should be in this article. This also applies to the list of Roman ruins.  Done, although I feel that such information is better in Economy (Tourism) altogether. It reads like there's a gap between direct Imperial rule and autonomy under the Ghassanids. Still no information on the rise of the Ghassanids No context provided for what the "Abbasid movement" is.  Done The timeline of rulers should be integrated with the more detailed information about certain periods in the next paragraph. Unaddressed Considering the length of Ottoman rule, it's surprising that there's no mention of any effects it had on Jordan. The Jordanian government source used says it was mostly a period of stagnation, if other sources agree just mentioning this will be useful.  Done. Still seems sparse, but it's better than before. The Muslim period subsection probably needs more sources. Unaddressed T.E. Lawrence information probably too specific this article, the mention of wider allied support is enough (although perhaps the French deserve specific mention along with the British).  Done, could use copyediting to combine replicated information. It'd be good to have a sentence indicating how Abdullah I was chosen to rule Transjordan. Done, but incorrect. The kingdoms were not divided into four states, one per son. It was much more complicated. Best to just focus on Transjordan. The text notes restrictions on sovereignty were removed by treaty in 1948, but does not give examples of what those were.  Done Context as to why King Hussein sacked all his British soldiers and terminated prior agreements with the British would be useful.  Done Details on specific battles are undue in this article.  Done, more or less. Much cleaner at any rate. It would be worth mentioning explicitly that Jordan's agreement that the PLO represented the Palestinian people meant it had given up all claims on the West Bank (currently explicitly stated in geography).  Done When mentioning the ascension to the throne of Abdullah II, the additional information about Prince Hassan is confusing without further information, and information about the namesake seems implicit enough due to the Roman numerals.  Done The last paragraph seems outdated and unspecific. Rather than announcements, a very concise summary of the effects of the Arab Spring would be better. Unaddressed Understandably, the History section skews to having more content in recent history. More concision in independent history would however be favourable. Geography Mention 34°E instead of 35°E if it's not bounded by 35°E. Unaddressed The Rift Valley is not "of" the River. If anything, it's the other way around, considering the valley goes all the way to the Red Sea while the river doesn't.  Done The first paragraph should be split up, with the geographic boundaries and extremes in one part, and human geography such as cities in another.  Done Perhaps move the Human Geography information to demographics to prevent duplication. Either way, human geography could use some expansion as well; information discussing the concentration of population in the west as opposed to the desert in the East for example.  Done, but unsourced I'd personally move boundary changes to history, keeping this focused on present geography.  Done, removed from Geography although not in History. Probably fine. The BBC link is dead, and the replacement page doesn't seem to have the information it cites here. Unaddressed There's a lot that seems lacking in this section. Some of the background from the existing Natural Resources section, for example (eg. sunlight and forest cover), could fit here, leaving the Economy section to deal more specifically with economic effects. Potential examples of information: Overall land area, north-south distance, perhaps west-east distance although due to Jordan's shape this isn't as useful.  Done, but sources needed Major topographical features. Geography of Jordan is full of detail, but unfortunately lacking in sources. It could still provide inspiration for here.  Done, but sources needed Mention of water features aside from the River Jordan.  Done, but sources needed Note that the Dead Sea does have exiting flow. (Other information about the dead sea could be appropriate here, perhaps taken from current Tourism subsection.) A quick summary of Jordan's ecosystems and the biota they support.  Done, but could use a bit more detail. A quick summary of environmental pressures. Water pressure and desertification come to mind as possibilities, especially given the current drought in the Middle East. Politics and government Information about subdivisions should be present in the text, not just in the caption.  Done, but sources needed Information about Jordan's peace treaty should be in the foreign relations subsection. Unaddressed Does the King pick senators/governors from a pool of people or from anyone he knows?  Done, but sources needed How are the independent politicians chosen? Unaddressed Are the Prime Minister and Cabinet taken from the Legislative bodies or are they separate? Unaddressed What is the length of the election cycle? Explicitly note as well that 2013 was the last election.  Done The name of the Prime Minister would be good, as well as the date of appointment.  Done Perhaps also mention the current crown prince.  Done More detail on the power of the King and of the executive and legislative branches would be good. General information on the constitution should be mentioned here rather than in Crime subsection, as it deals with more than just crime.  Done The first paragraph of Foreign Relations is dangerously close to the original text, I would suggest it falls afoul of WP:COPYVIO. Generally, this is more easily avoided through a greater variety of sources.  Done, better. Rather than a detail of the specific Likud proposal and Jordanian reaction, a general statement noting Jordan's support of Palestinian independence would be preferable.  Done It is also probably worth noting here something about Jordan's monarch's role in Al-Aqsa.  Done Arab League and OIC membership should be noted here and possibly discussed if either plays a major role in Jordan's foreign relations.  Done Perhaps mention possible GCC membership?  Done ENP info needs a source. The source from the lead would probably do.  Done Mention of Syria is conspicuously absent here, including strikes against IS.  Done "Jordanian Armed Forces field hospital in Afghanistan has since 2002 provided assistance to some 750,000 persons and has significantly reduced the suffering of people residing in areas where the hospital operates" is an oddly out-of-place sentence, which is very wp:puffery.  Done "In some missions, the number of Jordanian troops was the second largest, the sources said" is similarly out of place, and doesn't carry much meaning or information. It is also another good example of unnecessary attribution.  Done Information on the Judiciary in Crime and Law Enforcement lacks sources  Done The text mentions three branches of courts, but then goes on to only discuss two, leaving "special" courts unexplained.  Done, although it could use a little more detail. What is the "Family Law"?  Done Again, there is a lot of factors that contribute to safety, and numbers are better than vague statements such as "one of the safest countries in the world".  Done "Female police officers are leading the way in Jordan" is similarly puffery, the information is delivered just as effectively with that phrase simply deleted.  Done A lot of the rankings here are compared with other countries in the region, which is useful, but they should also be put into a global context. The mention of Jordan as 1st in Arab states and 78th globally is a good example, regional comparison first followed by a global comparison.  Done Economy The Economy section starts with notes about being in upper-middle income and having a growing GDP, but then immediately throws in a statistic of poverty. The poverty sentence should be moved to after GDP history, and perhaps context given for decrease over time? 2% isn't much, but presumably it was higher and decreased with increased GDP?  Done Rather than simply saying Jordan has advanced status with the EU, explain the effects of that on the Economy.  Done, although I note it's export with fewer restrictions, rather than simply export. "The government employs between one-third and two-thirds of all workers" shows a huge range. Why the large range? There is a lot of repetition in this section. "Growth was expected to reach 3% by the end of 2012 and the IMF predicts GDP will increase by 3.5% in 2013, rising to 4.5% by 2017.[117] The inflation rate was forecast at 4.5% by the end of 2012.[117]" Very out of date. Add GDP figures in infobox "The proportion of skilled workers in Jordan is among the highest in the region" is unsourced and is given with no context. Skilled in what industries?  Done Unskilled labourers, including the many foreign ones, could perhaps be mentioned. "Jordan has hosted the World Economic Forum on the Middle East and North Africa six times and held it for the seventh time in 2013 at the Dead Sea" -> "Jordan has hosted the World Economic Forum on the Middle East and North Africa seven times."  Done If there is a list of the largest five Jordanian companies, it should all come from one source. Personally I'd simply remove the list as overdetailed, unless a particular company completely dominates some industry or is otherwise unusual in importance, I wouldn't think it worth mentioning in this article. This applies to the entire Economy section.  Done "In the past several years, demand has increased rapidly for housing and offices of foreign enterprises based in Jordan to better access the Iraqi market" has an old citation, and seems odd now. Is the Iraqi construction industry still a big draw?  Done I'd remove the huge picture and UNESCO box in favour of one picture, so the tourism section fits in with the rest of the article. Large whole-page image still out of place "Tourism accounted for 10%–12% of the country's Gross National Product in 2006" is uncited, and surely there are more recent figures? The last sentence of the section notes a drop in income, but gives no baseline figure to put that drop in context.  Done Much of the tourism section reads like an advertisement rather than an encyclopaedia article. Better, but could still use work Why is Jordan's oil shale non-commercial? Too expensive to extract or refine? Combine all the shale information into one paragraph rather than split between paragraphs. Still no reasoning provided Why is Jordan a transit country for Iraq? Iraq has its own ports.  Done Why does Lloyd's List consider Aqaba so great? Capacity? Infrastructure? Expansion by itself not a good reason, and text is far too close to source Rather than giving such detail about individual airports, stick to a summary. Unaddressed Information about terrestrial transport infrastructure is lacking. Presumably there's a large road system, is it restricted mostly to the west? Is there a rail system?  Done As an example of duplication, nuclear industry is mentioned in Natural Resources and in Science and Technology.  Done I feel that thought needs to be put into the structure of the Economy section. Are the current subsections the best way to arrange it? Do they reflect relative importance within the Jordanian Economy? Demographics The city of Al-Salt is called "Al-Salt" in the rest of the article, but "Salt" here. It doesn't matter which one is used, so long as its consistent throughout the article.  Done The Immigrants and Refugees subsection contains information about Jordanian citizens as well.  Done Do many refugees obtain citizenship? The 1948 Palestinian refugees are mentioned as often having citizenship, but not the others. More context needs to be provided for the Palestinian citizenship/yellow card/green card situation. Presumably the revocation was on Palestinians living in the West Bank. How can the yellow card grant all the rights of Jordanian citizenship, but prevent resettlement into Jordan? When did various Iraqi refugees arrive?  Done, although none from the recent conflicts? How many people is a "relatively large" western expatriate population? Unaddressed Jordan paid for 63% of the cost of supporting the refugees within its borders, not of the entire refugee crisis.  Done Does the census include the illegal immigrants? Does Jordan have Shia, Ibadi, or other Muslim minorities, or are the Amahdis the 7% of non-Sunni Muslims? Unaddressed I'd remove the religion bar chart, it doesn't help much given there's only three bars and one completely dominates the others.  Done What does it mean for a language to be "acknowledged widely"?  Done Are there any rare minority languages? Consider adding information somewhere about how citizenship is obtained/passed down. More needed, such as passing through paternal line but not maternal line. Culture The opening paragraph feels incongruous. If society is both "relatively traditional" and "cosmopolitan", this contradiction needs to be explained.  Done More detail on what these traditions are would be good, as well as an explanation of the effects religion has on the culture. Unaddressed Rather than note the institutions that represent art, a short summary on the current state of art would be better. Is there a normal style? Unaddressed State the language of the musicians, presumably it's Arabic music.  Done Is there anything special about any of these musicians? A list of museums does nothing to help the reader, or say anything about Jordan. Still overly listy Is much of the media state owned or privately owned? What factors lead to its position as 120th freest?  Done How much internet penetration is there in Jordan?  Done "Jordanian food can vary from extremely hot and spicy to mild" is a pretty meaningless statement.  Done Meze/Mezze is spelt two different ways and is split into two separate paragraphs.  Done How does the national Football team do in the AFC Cup?  Done, more context at any rate. How good is the women's team?  Done Numbers or other quantification is preferable to statements like "most popular", "gaining popularity", and "many people". Is the structure of the culture section reflective of importance within Jordanian culture? There definitely needs to be more information on the generalities, such as influence and history, than what is presented in the current first paragraph. Health Why is the health service the best in the region? Claim still feels unsupported What are the figures for male/female life expectancy?  Done What are the leading causes of death?  Done Education Comparisons to Turkey and Syria seem odd. Why those two? Why compare at all?  Done Why the ranges in % of people in secondary/higher education?  Done Is the compulsory education free? How many children go through primary education?  Done

Progress is being made, but many questions still remain. CMD (talk) 00:28, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

Follow up:

• Ammon, Edom and Moab are mentioned because they are unique due to the fact that they were almost the only form of self governance in Jordan rather than being occupied by some distant empires. Also they are very popular in the old testament and are often attributed to Jordan.

• Nabatean kingdom is also unique, a form of self Arab governance that had left remarkable ruins in Jordan that now form an overwhelming share of its identity.
• How is saying that Jordan is safe being puffery? Its true... Arab countries dealing with ISIS affiliates include; Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Sudan. Arab countries dealing with suicide bombings include; Lebanon, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Gulf countries. Jordan is at the midst of all this, and most importantly have a large amount and share of refugees unlike the others...
• Tourism is mentioned in the lead because it greatly contributes to the economy, not necessarily in terms of GDP but in terms of hard currency. Also I can't seem to find recent statistics.
• The cities chosen by the map provided by the CIA factbook, are the most influential governorate centers.
• The Arabic source does in fact mention Oultrejordain and discusses the naming in English too.
• Being one of the oldest human statues to be ever made is referenced to many sources, it really isn't puffery.
• Not sure how to find a timeline on region's rulers.
• The BBC link is alive and well.
• I don't really know what to search for here "environmental, water pressures and desertification".
• Independent politicians nominate themselves ?
• Can GDP growth rates be added to infobox?
• There are no statistics on the exact figures of expats.
• Passing of citizenship through paternal line rather than maternal line is due to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Now if we mention this then we have to elaborate further on why only citizenship is passed paternally, which would require a large amount of coverage. Wouldn't it be easier to avoid mention of it?
• I can't find sources of effect of religion on culture in Jordan

Makeandtoss (talk) 15:29, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

• Regarding the kingdoms, it's very well that there are reasons, but they should come out in the text.
• Text being puffery is not just about facts, it is about the presentation of facts. It could be a copyediting issue. For example, the third paragraph discusses refugees coming into the country. In it, the phrase "safe refuge" is used, a phrase which is tautologous. Simply "refuge" would suffice. Another example is that the fourth paragraph throws in another sentence with no connection to the surrounding text saying Jordan is safe again,
• I'm not saying Tourism shouldn't be included in the lead, I'm saying it shouldn't be included divided into two portions (now fixed) and separated from other Economy information.
• I'd prefer it if the map is used, it explained this criteria with a caption or something. Possibly a good subject for wider discussion among knowledgable editors.
• It doesn't seem to mention the word in its Latin letters. My worry is that transliteration often leads to confusion when discussing words.
• I can't find the note that they are some of the oldest large-scale statues on either of the two web sources that I can access cited in this article.
• My note about timelines was about how the history section as currently written jumps back and forth a bit every now and then, with lists and details separated.
• Apologies, my unaddressed referred to the source not supporting the cited text, not to it being dead.
• With regards to water pressures and desertification, those are just issues I assumed may be prominent in Jordan, given its geographical location.
• I was wondering why the independent politicians have seats uncontested by parties. The way it was written I assumed that was due to a legal framework.
• I'd add base GDP figures to the text, not growth to the infobox.
• The census doesn't have expats? Interesting. No estimates? Any number would be better than "relatively large".
• Mentioning it passes through the paternal line doesn't require going in depth into the background if that is undue for this article. That said, it would be good if that information was somewhere in wikipedia, and could be linked to from here. I go back to my previous urging that good information you remove from this article should be used to improve more specific articles.
• There must be sources about it somehow. The source currently cited implies there's a conservative rural culture linked to Islam, while Amman is more liberal.

CMD (talk) 03:08, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Follow up:

• Added caption to map.
• Check british museum link for ain ghazal statues
• Not sure what to do with timelines in history
• BBC link mentions wet climate in west but i cant find source on inhabitance on west
• Desertification mentioned in natural resources
• Independent politicians prefer to nominate themselves independently because the chances of their winning in parties is lower than independently
• Where do i find recent data on gdp?
• No expat info yet. Census detailed study is yet to be published. I will add them as soon as they are out
• Mentioning that citizenship passes only paternally will mislead people into thinking that Jordan is some extremist theocracy that discriminates upon women. (While true in some cases), here its solely for one reason; minimizing the amount of Jordanians from a Palestinian origin so that far right Zionist nut jobs could stop advertising that Jordan should be a Palestinian state because it has a Palestinian majority living under a bedouin minority dictatorship. Long story short, lets avoid mention.
• Cant find sources on cultural differences between Amman and rest of Jordan.

The rest is addressed Makeandtoss (talk) 08:50, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

• I can't actually access the British Museum source, there's an error message instead. Still, the current wording is already better than the initial wording when I made the comment.
• Integrate the timelines with the main prose. Perhaps look over history articles in other articles for ideas.
• The BBC link is used to support more text than that.
• Why don't the parties contest all seats?
• The GDP data in the infobox seems fine to include in the main prose.
• While I don't know how reliable RT is considered, it provides a start for some slight rewording.

At any rate, this GAN has gone past the advised 7 days, and as I don't see its issues being resolved in very quick manner, so I'm afraid I have to close this GAN as not passed. It retains copywriting issues throughout, and needs a comprehensive run-through. I also have concerns about the sourcing, in addition to those that have been raised recently here and in edits to the Jordan page. Some text is unsourced, or is before a source which only supports some of it. I am unsure of the reliability of some sources. Some of those unreliable sources have been mentioned or removed already, but others, such as BiblePlaces.com and mafhoum.com. Others are incomplete, such as "Morris, 2008, p. 214, 215", or the Brandt Travel guide cited three times separately once without a page number. One source is even attributed to wayback machine. Many sources lack access dates. I recommend checking sources to make sure they're reliable and that they support the information cited, and then updating the accessdates while this is being done. I also recommend going through various MOS guidelines and making sure this page matches them as best as possible. On the specific advice of structure, short paragraphs should be combined with surrounding paragraphs as best as possible. Furthermore, I would suggest that if a topic does not merit within WP:SUMMARYSTYLE at least two, preferably three, paragraphs on this article, it should not have its own subheading.

I would like to clarify that this is in no way a bad article. It is informative, and has improved greatly over the course of this GAN, and it looks like it continues to improve. I hope editors continue to improve this article, and I am happy to give further advice if wanted. Best regards, CMD (talk) 13:11, 18 March 2016 (UTC)