Talk:Jonathan Karp

Request to add image to infobox

Resolved

I've uploaded a photograph and submitted at OTRS ticket for File:Jonathan Karp.jpg. Is someone willing to add this image to the infobox on my behalf? @GeoffreyT2000: I am pinging you since you moved the draft into main space. Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 16:28, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

 Done, thank you for your image donation. Altamel (talk) 06:18, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

@Altamel: Thank you for helping so quickly. If you're available, I just submitted another very simple edit request below, which should be quick to review. Inkian Jason (talk) 17:15, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Edit request re: father's occupation

Resolved

Hello, I am back with a very simple request, based on a conversation about Mr. Karp about his father’s stated occupation. Currently, the article says, "His parents worked as a schoolteacher and a bank president." I'd like to update the text to say, "His mother worked as a schoolteacher and his father served as chairman and chief executive officer at a bank." per this source Archived 2017-03-08 at the Wayback Machine and this source. Here is markup for the two sources, which can be added as additional inline citations:

• <ref name="Nadler">{{cite news|last1=Nadler|first1=Paul|title=Weekly Advisor: Has New Jersey Bank Got Its Fair Share in Community's Comeback?|url=https://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-21103845.html|accessdate=February 16, 2017|work=[[American Banker]]|publisher=[[SourceMedia]]|date=September 1, 1998|subscription=yes|via=[[HighBeam Research]]}}</ref>
• <ref name="Thirteen">{{cite web|title=Donald M. Karp, Secretary|url=http://www.thirteen.org/friendsofthirteen/2016/08/11/donald-m-karp-2/|website=Thirteen.org|accessdate=February 16, 2017|date=August 11, 2016}}</ref>

Thanks for your consideration. Inkian Jason (talk) 17:14, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

@GeoffreyT2000: I am looking for an editor to review this very simple edit request. Since you have already looked at this article, I figured I'd start with you before visiting related WikiProjects and asking users for help. Thanks for considering, Inkian Jason (talk) 17:17, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

Accepted

Good morning, Inkian Jason. I am going to add this to the article, but reword the citation format for the THIRTEEN source. I find the Tisch WNET Studios a plumb for a citation; (PBS programming) and this parent company is going in the citation along with updated access dates. I did not add the name of the bank but it could be added since it is named in the sources. Thanks and all the best. Fylbecatulous talk 13:57, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

@Fylbecatulous: Thank you very much for your assistance. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:35, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Not a resume

TonyBallioni, I see we are like-minded. I think the list of books he edited needs to go as well. I don't want to say that's strutting around with someone else's feathers (as the Dutch say), but I'm thinking it. Drmies (talk) 01:31, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

• snip. Drmies (talk) 01:34, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
  • Drmies, I would agree with your edits. I was going through the author's contributions after interacting with them on IRC today, as they appeared to have been given the wrong impression earlier in their career as to what makes a neutral Wikipedia article vs. a directory entry. To be fair, they seem to be the paid editor I've interacted with that is actually closest to getting it right, but I thought that the linking to every op-ed ever written was a bit much. This actually might be up DGG's alley: a publisher who is likely significant enough that we don't want to delete it, but a commissioned article that needs more eyes. TonyBallioni (talk) 01:50, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

The head of a major publishing house, or even the chief editor for one, or for a major imprint of the house, is notable, and there is no difficulty showing it. There are always sources. the role of such people in literature and the book world in general is very significant as gate-keeps, and sometimes as actual creative contributors. But the problem with including a list of works he edited, is that they need to be works he is personally responsible for in some significant way, rather than just those he had overall supervisory control They should also be works where his editing was a major contribution to the eventual work--there are such instances ( I think the most famous is Maxwell Perkins's role with Look Homeward Angel. But this cannot be assumed from mentions and incidental references--there has to be a read source, either literary or academic, and preferably enough information to show general agreement. Looking at the article history, very few of the items have any source at all,and my sampling of the ones that do did not strike me as sufficient evidence. I haven't checked them all, and it would be a good deal of work to do so--for someone of his stature, compiling and judging it might make a good MAS thesis. DGG ( talk ) 02:48, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

• Thank you DGG for weighing in: I agree with you. There is no doubt that there are things in an editor's article that would be noteworthy, the first and most obvious example I can think of being Christopher Tolkien editing his father's work. There's Ted Hughes editing Sylvia Plath's work and publishing it posthumously. I am not opposed to including such a note for some book or another if sources bear out that the editor had a significant role to play, but we can't have these enumerations, these resumes. I see there are other articles associated with the writer of this article that do that, including Harry Jackson (artist). Drmies (talk) 03:34, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

• Yes, agreed with both of you. The question here is which works should be included and can be supported by sourcing. Our purpose here is to report a biography, not a CV, so finding a way to implement DGG's suggestion here is what is needed. TonyBallioni (talk) 04:13, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

2023 updates

Hello! On behalf of the subject and as part of my work at Beutler Ink, I'd like to submit a few requests to improve this biography, which has been updated some since late 2017 but remains outdated. I will offer suggestions here on the Talk page for other editors to review and implement appropriately, and will not make changes myself given my COI. For easier review, I've saved a copy of the current markup as a user subpage, created a diff showing all proposed changes, and added highlighting to identify text additions/changes in green and text relocations in orange. You can view my proposed version in its entirety here.

As you can see, I've proposed some updates to the introduction and the Career section, and I've also suggested adding a Bibliography section and a couple links with notable YouTube interviews to the External links section. Recognizing this may be a lot for editors to review at once, I'd like to submit a series of edit requests for easier review and implementation.

Text relocations

I'd like to start with perhaps the least controversial change to relocate select existing text to keep related content together. Currently, the biography gives an overview of the subject's editing and publishing career, then displays a Theatre subsection (which has an update at the bottom about his publishing career), then displays a Controversy section about his publishing career. It does not make sense to have the Theatre section in the middle of content about his editing and publishing career. Therefore, to keep all content about his editing and publishing career together, I propose relocating the following pieces of text:

• "On 29 May 2020, he became the CEO of Simon & Schuster."
  • Request: Move this text out of Theatre and into the main Career section.
• "In 2022, Simon & Schuster sold 900 autographed copies of Bob Dylan’s book of essays, “The Philosophy of Modern Song.” Accompanying each $600 book was a letter of authenticity signed by Karp, the publisher’s chief executive, indicating that the books had been hand signed by Dylan. According to a New York Times article, when the books arrived, readers immediately noticed that the autographs appeared to have been machine generated by an auto pen. While Simon & Schuster initially denounced the “online rumors,” intense pressure led the publishing house to send out an “acknowledgment” that the autograph had been rendered “in a penned replica form.” Buyers were then provided a refund. Karp and Simon & Schuster declined further comment."
  • Request: Move this text out of Controversy and into the main Career section.

At least for now, I am only proposing to move existing text, with no other text changes. If helpful, you can see where I've placed these pieces of text by finding the orange highlights at User:Inkian Jason/Jonathan Karp. Please let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 19:13, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

 Done Spencer^T•C 19:32, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you. Inkian Jason (talk) 16:42, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Request to add Bibliography and links to notable interviews

Next, I'd like to propose adding a Bibliography section and links to two interviews on notable programs (The Howard Stern Show and One on One with Steve Adubato) via YouTube.

For the Bibliography, I propose adding the subject's contribution to What editors do : the art, craft, and business of book editing (2017). Following is markup for the entry:

Bibliography

• Karp, Jonathan (2017). "The alchemy of acquisitions: twelve rules for trade editors". In Ginna, Peter (ed.). What editors do : the art, craft, and business of book editing. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.

Also, at the bottom of the External links section, I propose adding YouTube links to the subject's interviews on The Howard Stern Show and One on One with Steve Adubato:

• Simon & Schuster's Jonathan Karp Calls Howard Stern His "White Whale" on YouTube, The Howard Stern Show
• The Future of the Publishing Business on YouTube, One on One with Steve Adubato

Again, if helpful, you can see how these are displayed in my proposed draft in green highlighting at User:Inkian Jason/Jonathan Karp. Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 19:23, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

 Partly done Added the bibliography. The "further reading" section already has 4 other Q&As, as well as a link to an NPR Q&A in the External Links. If anything, I believe that the section could be trimmed, since we would not be able to have an exhaustive listing of every Q&A involving the article subject. Do you have a suggestion as to which of the proposed links as well as current links might be the most notable to focus on? Spencer^T•C 19:37, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Crediting the subject for specific contributions

Next, I'd like to address the Not a resume section above. Back in 2017, users DGG, Drmies, and TonyBallioni decided to trim some previous content about books the subject had edited and authors with whom he had collaborated. I had no problem with this decision, as I wasn't sure exactly how much detail to include about the subject's work and felt their decision was reasonable. However, these editors also seemed willing to credit the subject for notable contributions to specific works as sources allow. Therefore, I propose adding the following three claims to the Career section, which describe specific books for which the subject was the principal acquirer and publisher (not just completing editorial work):

• During his tenure at Random House, Karp acquired The Orchid Thief (1998) by Susan Orlean, Seabiscuit: An American Legend (2001) by Laura Hillenbrand, and Shadow Divers (2004) by Robert Kurson.

• During his tenure at Twelve, Karp published God Is Not Great (2007) by Christopher Hitchens, True Compass (2009) by Ted Kennedy, and War (2010) by Sebastian Junger.

• Karp oversaw publication of Steve Jobs (2011) by Walter Isaacson, In One Person (2012) by John Irving, Born to Run (2016) by Bruce Springsteen, What Happened (2017) by Hillary Clinton, Fear (2018) by Bob Woodward, Frederick Douglass (2018) by David W. Blight, and The Library Book (2018) by Susan Orlean. For his role in the success of Fear, Karp was named a "person of the year" by Publishers Weekly in 2018.

References

I propose adding these sentences to the ends of the paragraphs about the subject's publishing work at Random House, Twelve, and Simon & Schuster (prior to his promotion to CEO), respectively. If helpful, you can see how these proposed additions appear in my updated draft in green highlighting here.

My goal here is to mention specific (and the most notable) books he acquired and published, offering readers a trimmed down summary of his contributions and accomplishments. I'd like to think DGG, Drmies, and TonyBallioni would see these as appropriate replacements for the content removed back in 2017. I invite them and other editors to please review my proposed additions and update the biography appropriately. Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 20:05, 13 February 2023 (UTC)

• I would very strongly oppose this. It's overemphasis on a particular editor. We include all books a person wrote, because that's a creative process, and highly relevant to notability. We sometimes include particularly important books or series a person edited in a creative way, by taking the intellectual responsibility for the contents.
• The material shown here is not a creative artistic process. The author, not the publisher, normally has the primary intellectual responsibility

Editing or publishing in the sense used here is normally a business proposition--though there are a few exceptions where an editor did have a major creative role). This is not to say the role is necessarily minor --its a critically important part of the business of book publishing, DGG ( talk ) 22:22, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

DGG, I don't understand what you mean by "overemphasis on a particular editor". The subject did not just complete editorial work on these books as part of a team. He was the principal acquirer and publisher, and sources specifically credit him for his role in these projects. I've requested adding mention of these books because they are relevant to notability; for example, his contributions to Fear earned him recognition as a "person of the year" by Publishers Weekly. My goal here is to mention some of the projects where the subject played a major role, which I thought is what you, Drmies, and TonyBallioni preferred. Inkian Jason (talk) 19:19, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean with "principal publisher". I looked at the Deadline article--well, it doesn't read like an article, at least not the paragraph with the "has overseen" list: that just looks like what any CEO or college administrator would list, now republished in a news bit that reads like a press release. In other words, I see no evidence that Karp played a substantial role in getting these books out with this publisher, let alone that there was a creative role. Thomas Wentworth Higginson and Emily Dickinson, sure--but I don't see it here, so I certainly don't support adding that bit. I can't tell if the NYT articles verify a substantial role for Karp, and that's what this hinges on for me. Drmies (talk) 01:34, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

@Drmies An acquisitions editor is like a producer or director; they are involved in all aspects of the creation of the book. "The Unbreakable Laura Hillenbrand" describes Karp's role in Seabiscuit, which included proposal review and purchasing the rights "for just over $100,000". "Simon & Schuster Names Jonathan Karp C.E.O." focuses specifically on Karp and says:

• "Mr. Karp oversaw the publication of “Steve Jobs” by Walter Isaacson, “Born to Run” by Bruce Springsteen and “Frederick Douglass” by David Blight, which won a Pulitzer Prize in History."
• "He went on to start an imprint called Twelve at the Hachette Book Group in 2005, where he published well-received best sellers including “God Is Not Great” by Christopher Hitchens and “War,” by Sebastian Junger."

I wouldn't think crediting Karp for his role in these projects is controversial. More:

• The Los Angeles Times via Associated Press says: "The 56-year-old Karp has a long history of critical and commercial success at Random House, at Twelve and at Simon & Schuster. Notable books he has worked on include Kennedy’s “True Compass,” Orlean’s “The Library Book,” Bruce Springsteen’s “Born to Run” and Laura Hillenbrand‘s “Seabiscuit.”"
• NPR says, "Among the hit books he worked on were Seabiscuit and The Orchid Thief."
• Another New York Times article says, "Eventually he rose to editor in chief of the Random House Publishing Group and edited and acquired best sellers like “Seabiscuit” by Laura Hillenbrand, “Thank You for Smoking” by Christopher Buckley and “The Orchid Thief” by Susan Orlean."
• Harper's Bazaar says, "... he had acquired Laura Hillenbrand’s Seabiscuit early in his career despite being told that books on horse racing never sell"

I've proposed adding mention of these books because many sources clearly verify his role. I would think the Wikipedia entry would reflect what sources say about the subject. Thanks again for reviewing. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:52, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

Proposed text relocation

Resolved

I'd like to submit another request to relocate select existing text to improve the article's flow and readability. I propose moving the following text from the editing/publishing section to the Theatre subsection and changing the heading from Theatre to Theatre and television:

• "In May 2011, Karp made a cameo appearance on the finale of Gossip Girl's fourth season ("The Wrong Goodbye"), in which he negotiates a manuscript deal with one of the show's main characters. He later appeared on the season five episodes "The Jewel of Denial" (October 10, 2011) and "Father and the Bride" (January 23, 2012)."
  • Request: Move this text to Theatre and television subsection, since the subject's television appearances are less significant than his editing and publishing work

References
References

Again, I am only proposing to move existing text, with no other changes. If helpful, you can see where I've placed this text by finding the orange highlight at User:Inkian Jason/Jonathan Karp. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 16:38, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done, Inkian Jason I have made this edits, hopefully all is fine.Noxoug1 (talk) 16:09, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

@Noxoug1: Thank you for reviewing and implementing this request. Inkian Jason (talk) 16:28, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

Updates re: subject's tenure as CEO

Hi again! I'm back to submit an edit request proposing updates to this biography on behalf of the subject.

Currently, the article says "On 29 May 2020, he became the CEO of Simon & Schuster" but offers no other details about his tenure in this role. I propose the following updates, following this text:

• Karp was included in Publishers Weekly's 2022 list of 25 "book business change makers", or "seriously consequential individuals whose mark on the industry is indelible".
• In his role as chief executive, Karp testified in a 2022 antitrust trial filed by the Department of Justice to prevent Penguin Random House from acquiring Simon & Schuster.

References

I've tried to draft brief and neutral claims based on Wikipedia-accepted publications. If helpful, you can see where I've placed this text by finding the green highlights at User:Inkian Jason/Jonathan Karp. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 18:53, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 20:07, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Proposed claims for Career section

I'd like to propose three additions to the Career section. The first describes the subject's longstanding relationship with John McCain. The other two are about the subject's stance on publishing political books.

• Karp is the longtime editor of John McCain; the two collaborated with Mark Salter on Faith of My Fathers (1999), Worth the Fighting For (2002), Why Courage Matters (2004), and The Restless Wave (2018).

• In 2020, Alexandra Alter of The New York Times wrote, "As a publisher who has worked with both conservative and liberal public figures, Mr. Karp has developed a reputation for knowing which political books will work commercially and how to market them."

• In 2021, he turned down a petition signed by approximately 200 staff members, opposing Simon & Schuster's decision to publish a memoir by Mike Pence. According to The Wall Street Journal, some staff said the deal "would be a betrayal of the company's promises to oppose bigotry and make minority employees feel safe", but Karp insisted Simon & Schuster is "committed to publishing a broad range of views".

References

Again, I've tried to draft brief and neutral claims based on Wikipedia-accepted publications. If helpful, you can see where I've placed this text by finding the green highlights at User:Inkian Jason/Jonathan Karp. Please let me know if you have any questions. Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 18:53, 6 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done Johannes (Talk) (Contribs) (Articles) 19:59, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Proposed addition re: digital signature

Hello again! I'd like to propose an addition to the paragraph starting with "In 2022, Simon & Schuster sold 900 autographed copies of Bob Dylan's book of essays..." Per the Los Angeles Times and so the text doesn't suggest the subject is solely responsible, I suggest adding the following text:

• Dylan said "his decision to digitally sign" the books was an "error in judgment", according to the Los Angeles Times.

References

If helpful, you can see where I've placed this text by finding the green highlights at User:Inkian Jason/Jonathan Karp. As always, happy to address any questions or concerns.

Thanks! Inkian Jason (talk) 15:10, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done Spencer^T•C 19:38, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for reviewing this request. Inkian Jason (talk) 16:38, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

Request to fix incorrect introduction

Resolved

Hello! I'd like to address the introduction, which currently suggests the subject no longer serves as CEO of Simon & Schuster. In order to clarify his roles, I propose replacing the current introduction with the following, per The New York Times and Publishers Weekly:

• Jonathan Karp is an American book editor, publisher, and writer. He is the publisher, president, and chief executive of Simon & Schuster, and has also led the company's flagship division. Karp also founded Twelve, an imprint at the Hachette Book Group, and was the editor-in-chief of Random House.

I'll let editors decide if using the sources as inline citations in the lead is necessary. My goal here is to correct and update the existing text. Again, if helpful, you can see this text in my full draft at User:Inkian Jason/Jonathan Karp. Thanks again! Inkian Jason (talk) 15:21, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

 Done, Inkian Jason I have made this edits, hopefully all is fine with other editors. Noxoug1 (talk) 15:59, 15 March 2023 (UTC)

@Noxoug1: Thanks again for your assistance here! If you're willing to take a look at any of the remaining requests, including this one to simply relocate existing text, I'd be much appreciated. Otherwise, I will wait for other editors who tackle requests in the queue. Take care! Inkian Jason (talk) 16:36, 15 March 2023 (UTC)