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Archive 1Archive 2

Clifford Trahan Deceased?

I'm unsure Clifford Trahan (aka Johnny Rebel) is dead. I see no proof of this in online obituaries. Can someone provide proof?

--Skb8721 (talk) 16:56, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

Non racist discography?

There are lots of songs by Trahan on youtube that aren't on the page.. They are legit, as there are physical records of them. This Youtube channel (TheErrol1975) has lots of Johnny Rebel songs on his account that aren't mentioned on the page.

98.148.184.132 (talk) 00:24, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

The Potato Song

The article says that only two of Rebel's songs are not about race, namely "Keep a-Workin' Big Jim" and "(Federal Aid Hell!) The Money Belongs to Us". But then it mentions "Lâche pas la patate" (also known as "The Potato Song") which he wrote and which became a gold record in Canada for another artist. I've listened to that and read the lyrics and it doesn't appear to have to do with race. In fact, if I found out that Johnny Rebel didn't write it, I wouldn't be surprised. Are people sure that he wrote it? --Metropolitan90 (talk) 10:05, 6 January 2017 (UTC)

Hi, yes, it's true that Pee Wee Trahan (aka Johnny Rebel) wrote "Lâche pas la patate", which contains no racial or political content. He wrote it under his real name. See this image of the 45 RPM label for the song. (It merely credits the writer as "Trahan"): https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WDy7HEkTRNA/maxresdefault.jpg . --Skb8721 (talk) 17:12, 31 January 2017 (UTC)
I altered the text to correct the misinformation you spotted. Thanks. --Skb8721 (talk) 17:21, 31 January 2017 (UTC)

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wikiality

Reviving a WP:NOTFORUM discussion from 2008 is not an appropriate use of talk pages. Grayfell (talk) 01:05, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I claim this page for the diplomatic methods of truth and information!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.136.143.90 (talk) 14:10, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for removing the link to crunk. I don't like Johnny Rebel, either, but I think it's important to keep this entry in order to document his hatemongering, in the hope that such things don't happen again in the future. --Skb8721 18:21, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
In the hopes that what things don't happen in the future? David H. Goldstein (talk) 16:05, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Hatemongering such as Johnny Rebel's. --Skb8721 (talk) 14:48, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
Could someone please explain how JR was a "hatemonger"?47.137.183.192 (talk) 00:16, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Notability

Reviving a malformed discussion from 2003 is not productive. WP:NOTFORUM posts are not appropriate. Grayfell (talk) 01:05, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

If some totally obscure singer writes a whole bunch of songs with racist titles, in my opinion they are not appropriate for an article here, as it seems to amount to getting a racist message on Wikipedia by stealth. A small sample of his titles should be sufficient. The whole list is unnecessary. -- Evercat

Well stated. Danny
I'd agree with that also. Apart from anything else (and there is plenty of "anything else"), in an article this short, a long list overwhelms the article. --Camembert
Definitely agree that the article is overwhelmed. Can't we move the big article to, say, Clifford Trahan, and get this page back to a sensible sort of disambiguation page? --Percy Snoodle

The dates of release in order show how JR's music was in response to the America's changing social landscape during the 1960s and to provide information on a an artist, who, although not mainstream, is significant to a southern culture in its own right. (anon)

wikipedia is a facts sight not a opinion sight what you guys say is opinion and this shouldnt be removed since its stateing facts not insulting a race


As many Johnny Rebel songs are falsely attributed to other signers, such as David Allan Coe and Johnny Cash, a list is appropriate.24.167.52.195 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 00:49, 3 August 2014 (UTC)
Before JR's songs are dismissed as "racist" - the term needs to be defined. 47.137.183.192 (talk) 00:20, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Associated acts

I have removed all entries from the "Associated acts" field of the infobox. There were no sources at all. Since association with this musician has negative WP:BLP connotations, this information must be supported by a reliable source. Additionally, such lists are frequently limited to independently notable acts, meaning those which have a well-sourced article, or very clearly meet WP:GNG or similar. Grayfell (talk) 22:10, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Archiving

I have manually archived most of this talk page, as it was out of date and had accumulated a lot of vandalism and forum chatter. Many of these posts were from a time when dates were not, apparently, automatically added to talk posts, and which had been modified for various reasons, which I believe means that the archiving bots do not archive them. Posting a comment on a fifteen-year old discussion is unlikely to be as effective as just making a new post. Grayfell (talk) 01:12, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

Lyrics denouncing welfare, affirmative action and promoted racial segregation

Someone replaced the description of Johnny Rebel's body of work as "overtly racist lyrics" with the language in this section title. I believe that including descriptive language of the songs is a superior tactic to labeling the songs as "racist". I won't deny anyone their judgment call if they perceive JR's work to be racist but that is something that can be ascertained through reviewing the lyrics. A casual reader of this article may see just the lead and never know the content of JR's songs. This article should be accurate and objective. The recent revert to remove the descriptive language in favor of a potentially biased value judgment is harmful to the informative mission of Wikipedia. 01:23, 13 December 2017 (UTC) l — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.137.183.192 (talk) 01:23, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

You already created a talk page section about this issue above, and I've already responded there. Replying to random comments from 2003 with "i leik milk" is not the same as replying to your own recent comments about changes to the article. Stick to one section per issue, please. Grayfell (talk) 01:27, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
This is in response to your request on my talk page to bring my revision issue to the Johnny Rebel talk page concerning the description of his songs in the lead, and you are shunting away from the discussion. Please remain on topic. Thank you.47.137.183.192 (talk) 01:30, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
I am trying to explain to you how talk pages work. Posting "please stay on topic" after comments about leiking milk, and your personal opinion on whether or not he may or may not be a ghost demonstrates a lack of good faith, and also a lack of understanding of Wikipedia's policies. Both of those will necessarily impact your ability to improve this article if not addressed. Grayfell (talk) 01:35, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

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David Allan Coe

WP:NOTFORUM
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

For anyone who thinks that Johnny Rebel was David Allan Coe, keep in mind that Coe collaborated with Steve Goodman and Shel Silverstein, both Jews. I would like to think that Johnny Rebel wouldn't have anything to do with Jews. Bob Dylan was also a Jew, though he became a Christian for a time. 47.137.184.104 (talk) 04:38, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

This is a place to discuss improving the article, not to share your personal musings. Grayfell (talk) 06:26, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 April 2019

Change " was an American white supremacist singer " to " was an American singer " since that is opinionated Oopsee11 (talk) 03:51, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

Is he not mainly notable for songs with the theme of white supremacy? Also see the discussion above – Þjarkur (talk) 10:04, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.138.213.159 (talk) 15:57, 6 April 2020 (UTC)

Country or "white supremacist"?

Someone previously described this artist in the lead as a country singer and it was reverted to "white supremacist". However, in the singles list there is a column for rankings on the country chats (which none of the listed songs attained). The lead mentions that his lyrics have overt racist content, which does not necessarily make him a white supremacist. I dropped that attribute and it was reverted. I propose a compromise - either lose the "white supremacist" in the lead or delete the country rankings list. 47.137.183.192 (talk) 01:22, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Wikipedia isn't a platform for advocacy, nor is it for whitewashing. The only reason he even has an article is because of his extreme racism. He is white supremacist because reliable sources describe him as promoting white supremacy. His music is racist because sources describe his message as extremely racist. This is why he is notable at all, so this is what belongs in the lede. Your opinion is not a valid grounds for 'compromise'. Grayfell (talk) 01:18, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
Why is your opinion grounds for anything? 47.137.183.192 (talk) 01:26, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
Neutral language doesn't mean insulting euphemisms. His lyrics are racist according to reliable sources. The garbage about "political correctness" is non-neutral, because it's choosing words in a way that specifically downplays offensive connotations to protect some people's feelings. That, incidentally, is a form of political correctness too. The simple, direct way to say it is that his lyrics were racist. That's what sources say, so that's all that matters here. Grayfell (talk) 01:31, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
Alright, but you are missing the point of my proposed compromise. Are you willing to state for the record that country music is inherently racist? I would think that to be an extremely untenable position. 47.137.183.192 (talk) 01:35, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
What a silly game you're trying to play. If reliable sources said that country music was inherently racist, than so should Wikipedia. Does Johnny Rebel represent the entire genre of country music? Let's see sources which say he's representative of country music in that case, or sources which say that he's not country music at all. If you think that this racist songwriter should be defined by his genre, instead of the reason he is notable according to sources, you are wrong. Ledes summarize the reason a person is notable. If you think that his music wasn't racist or wasn't country music, then you'll need to present sources supporting these points. The column is standard boilerplate for tables of songs. It indicates the music chart ("Hot Country Songs") the song was categorized in, typically according to Billboard or similar, nothing else. Grayfell (talk) 01:50, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
Racist is not a genre, it's just a descriptive adjective. The style of music is still country. The Impartial Truth (talk) 09:32, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

Views on Reparations

Any reason why that is singled out as opposed to any of his other views on race? It seems like a backhanded way to include his apologia for his past. Let readers read the linked article if they want to know107.138.213.159 (talk) 17:22, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Which of his other racist views do you feel should be shared?-Serialjoepsycho- (talk) 19:37, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

I think the intro and the song descriptions are adequate. A separate header for reparations just seems extraneous, unless he devoted a significant part of his career to that issue.2600:1700:9D91:770:618E:5AE4:4F3C:6A08 (talk) 17:51, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

I leik milk 2600:1012:B125:B0B4:0:27:178D:D701 (talk) 06:01, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
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