Talk:John Y. Brown Jr.

Kenny Rogers Roasters

It would be nice to have a source for the comment about "record sales of any chicken restaurant chain". The ones that were around here are gone. Would "gross sales volume per unit" be meant? Rlquall 20:33, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

I have removed the statement in accordance with Wikipedia policy on unsourced statements. --TommyBoy 21:02, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Bluegrass Conspiracy

In accordance with Wikipedia polcies and guidelines, a verifiable source needs to be cited for Brown's alleged involvement in the Bluegrass Conspiracy. --TommyBoy 17:11, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Since no one has come forward with a verifiable source to back up the information, I have removed it from the article. --TommyBoy 00:04, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Reverted Edits

I have reverted unsourced edits made by User:64.253.166.252, which included an alleged gambling investigation of then-Governor Brown, and an alleged drug investigation of a Brown associate. Wikipedia's "Biographies of Living Persons" policy very clearly states that edits of this type must have sources or they will be subject to removal. If in fact these investigation did really happen, I would urge the user who added the information to cite a source for his edits. --TommyBoy 22:54, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

The same user has re-added the information, citing sources for his edits. --TommyBoy 02:28, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

john brown.

John Brown was a man of action. On October 16, 1859, He led 21 men on a raid of federal arsenal at Harpers Ferry Virginia. His plan is to arm slaves with the weapons he and his men seized from the arsenal was defeated. The militiamen and Marines led by Robert E Lee. In 36 hours of the attack most of Brown's men had been killed or captured.

There is more than one John Brown with an article on Wikipedia. You are referring to John Brown (abolitionist). --TommyBoy (talk) 13:26, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:John Y. Brown, Jr./GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Aaron north (T/C) 01:07, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

I have finished my initial review, and I enjoyed reading this article. I initially thought that this was going to be a boring article about yet another random old governor, but this guy turns out to be interesting. Aaron north (T/C) 03:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Anyway, the article's prose is pretty decent (other than the occasional choppiness), but there are many other problems, and a decent amount of important coverage seems to be missing. (The fact that this man accomplished so much in his life probably makes this article a little tougher to get to GA status!) If the prose was poor I'd probably just fail it now. I don't know if these issues could be fixed quickly, but since the article is decently written, I'll let the editors try if they want to work on it. I will hold this article for up to a week. (actually, this list is rather long. If a lot of progress is made, that "week" could possibly be extended if I think just a few more days are needed) Aaron north (T/C) 03:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

N Failing the article today, per message from the nominator, who will be too busy to work on this. This is a decent article, and I would encourage a re-nomination after the issues are fixed! Aaron north (T/C) 20:58, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

GA review (see here for criteria)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Comments

The following is a list of concerns that I believe need to be satisfied to pass review. If you disagree or believe I made an error, please point that out too. Aaron north (T/C) 03:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

note: Most of the issues have probably been identified below, but I might take another quick read through this article and some of the sources on wednesday, just to be sure I did not miss something crucial. Aaron north (T/C) 05:49, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

• The prose in several areas of this article is very choppy. By choppy I means lots of short little sentences as in "fact #1", period, cite, "fact #2", period, cite, "fact #3", period, cite, "fact #4", period, cite, new paragraph with new sets of closely-related facts, "fact #1", period, cite, etc. I am not a fan of huge sentences with 4 or 5 commas either, but you can probably string some of these tiny little factoids together to make the prose flow.
  • All but the last few sentences of "Early life"
  • Last half of both paragraphs in "Business ventures"
  • Basketball ventures looks fine in this regard.
  • First couple sentences in "Gubernatorial election of 1979" can probably be joined easily (e.g. "... interrupted his honeymoon with (name of new wife) to announce ..."
  • That whole Governorship section is mostly fine in this regard, except maybe these two sentences which should probably be joined if it makes sense: (In September 1983, the National Democratic Party named him Democrat of the Year. He was made lifetime Honorary Treasurer of the Democratic Party.)
  • Last few sentences of "Later political career"
  • Later life is mostly fine in this regard.
• The claim in the lead (Brown delivered on his campaign promise to run the state government like a business, which enabled him to guide the state through difficult economic times without raising taxes.) seems a bit strong and might get a bit close to OR given what was said in the article. Instead it might be more neutral to state what his promise was (govern the state like a business), and then list the actions which might lead the reader to conclude that he fulfilled that promise. Alternatively, I guess you could put in quotes from credible sources saying "he governed the state like a business and was able to accomplish such and such because of it."
• The lead mentioned he sold his interest in KFC for a "huge profit", but the article and source did not really elaborate on it. I assume he probably did, but is there a source saying he sold KFC for a profit, and how big the profit was?
• If he bought KFC for only 2 million and built the company into a huge success in just 7 years, I'd assume there would be more out there about it. If the company was struggling, what problems did they have which he fixed? If not, what did he do exactly to turn a healthy but small company into a big success? We don't need a huge amount of material here since the article is about a man who apparently accomplished a wide variety of things in life rather than an article about KFC's success, but this seems a bit too brief.
• There is some decent coverage in the 1979 Democratic primary, but I would assume the general election would merit more than a sentence. He wasn't like a 4-term senator dispatching a nutty little irrelevant opponent. Was there nothing of note about Brown's race against Louie Nunn?
• I have several questions on that basketball section, it seems this is a bit brief for the apparently noteworthy decisions that occurred.
  • (He put his wife and a 10-woman board of directors in charge of the team.) that seems... odd. Is there no "why" or interesting story behind this decision?
  • Was this related at all to the departures of the GM and coach? (did they say why they thought he would be "too meddlesome"?)
  • Is there a source that explains why he would buy a share of the Braves so soon after saying he didn't want to be involved with basketball?
  • You explain why Paul Snyder wanted to trade franchises, why did Brown agree?
• In this: (The announcement surprised most political observers because of his prior political apathy and because Brown had spent considerable time out of the state with his business ventures and jet-setting lifestyle.) Who were these "political observers"? (This looks a bit weaselly WP:WEASEL written as it is currently) Any quotes from reporters, newspapers, politicians, etc expressing surprise? "jet-setting" has a bit of a negative connotation too, might need to be replaced with quotes or by describing what about his lifestyle put people off.
• You mentioned that Sloane refused to concede for two days. Was this to allow time for a recount, or was he just simply pressured by the party?
• In this: (Because he owed few debts to the state's establishment...), should probably explain who "establishment" is, rather than using the word. Also, I assume you mean political debts rather than financial ones, so maybe "owed few political debts to other politicians"?
• Any reason why McAnulty resigned? Thats a bit of an abrupt surprise.
• In this: (Brown's hands-off approach allowed the legislature to gain power relative to the governor for the first time in Kentucky history, a trend which continued into the terms of his successors.) that reads more like analysis than a statement of fact, it should probably be attributed to whoever (who is also reputable) came to that conclusion.
• In this: (Beshear attacked Brown's lavish lifestyle in a series of campaign ads claiming that Brown would raise taxes.) are the bolded words a quote from Beshear? As it is, this reads like a statement of fact.
• In this: (Brown caused a minor stir when he refused to serve...), that seems a bit informal for an encyclopedia entry.
• Several "words to watch" WP:WTW should be removed or replaced with neutral language.
  • Peacock word: (A strong media campaign funded by...)
  • Peacock word not really supported in article: (...appointed many successful businesspeople to state posts instead of...)
  • Idiom or cliche: (Brown launched a media blitz promoting his candidacy to help him overcome his late start in the race.)
  • peacock word, should get rid of it, describe what generous means, or quote it: (He was also given a generous travel allowance.)

The following is a list of other thoughts or suggestions to improve the article. It is not necessary to satisfy these points to meet the GA criteria. Aaron north (T/C) 03:40, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

• Does a free or fair use image of the former governor exist?
• You have a couple dead links
• It is not necessary at all to cite the same source over and over again after each sentence in a paragraph. For example, if one source covers four consecutive sentences, you can just put it after that 4th consecutive sentence in the paragraph which uses that source. (You probably still need to re-cite if needed for non-consecutive sentences or for the next paragraph) Having a cite after every single sentence when it is not necessary gets to be a bit distracting. This is merely a comment on possible excessive cites. Like the other notes in this section, this comment has no impact on the outcome of a GA review if you really want to cite every sentence.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:John Y. Brown, Jr./GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

GA review (see here for criteria)

---

The article meets all the good article criteria as-is, so I'm going to pass it. It's very clear and readable. I have a few minor comments which go beyond the GA criteria; you may address them or disregard them as you wish. —Designate (talk) 23:31, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

   - I think it would be smoother to put the family members later in the lead. Reading the first paragraph was jarring for me, especially the "Currently single" which is off-tone for a biography. The first paragraph is usually the most basic summary of the subject's identity. Also, I don't like the phrase "although he may be best-known for...". It seems weaselly for the lead paragraph.
   - There are a few odd terms that ought to be linked – "U.S. Congress", "wood-roasted chicken", "Mrs. Kentucky". Maybe "bachelor's degree" as that means different things in different countries.
   - "old political foe" should probably be reworded, such as "former political foe".

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):

   I think some of the footnoting is excessive (but others may disagree with me). The "In Kentucky's Governors" paragraph cites the same footnote four sentences in a row. It would help the article's clarity if some of the footnotes were condensed.

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

   No obvious problems, as you apparently wrote the whole article yourself.

6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

   The image of Collins should use the "upright" option so it's not so big. It would be good to correct the rotation if possible.

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

Good work. Good luck on the GT.

Reviewer: Designate (talk) 23:31, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

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Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:John Y. Brown Jr./Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

I couldn't rate it start, sorry. Add in some inline citations and you can probabyl change it yourself. Could use some expansion and a pic if you can find one.--Wizardman 16:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC) I confirm the stub rating. No citations. No sections. No photos. Stylistic problems (you must check WP:MoS). It needs expansion. Not yet start.--Yannismarou 21:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Substituted at 05:11, 13 May 2016 (UTC)