Talk:John Sloan

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superfans

Yay! I loooovvvveee the works of John French Sloan. I have dedicated my life to collecting and preserving his paintings, etc. In fact, I have a tatoo on my back that says I love JFS on it...it cost me fifty dollars but it is really cool with thorns, drops of blood, roses etc. on it. — special:contribs/165.138.140.248 16:23, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

he was one of the worlds greatest artists. i admire him so much. I have every painting hes ever made. — special:contribs/165.138.165.128 15:00, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

relative

Any relation to John Sloan Dickey? — special:contribs/129.2.42.104 00:59, 28 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A distant cousin [John Loughery, "John Sloan: Painter and Rebel," NY: Henry Holt, 1995, p. 368]. Sloan died in Hanover, NH in 1951 while visiting the area for the first time, on a summer vacation, at the invitation of Dartmouth President John Sloan Dickey. — John Loughery (talk) 00:13, 27 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

https://wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1Name=Sloan-2249&person2Name=Dickey-2772 Arlo James Barnes 17:48, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Work list

Should we have a separate article listing his works? Arlo James Barnes 17:48, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 12 April 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: {{{result}}} Arlo James Barnes 17:48, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Moved, per consensus. The Duke 15:54, 20 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

John French Sloan → John Sloan
John Sloan → John Sloan (disambiguation)

– The artist is the primary topic, in that there are multiple books about the artist, and over 300 incoming links, which can't be said about the other John Sloans ("A topic is primary for a term with respect to long-term significance if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term"). In fact, it appears the artist's article was originally titled John Sloan before being usurped by the disambiguation page. The current title of the artist's article is misleading. The artist is most widely known as simply "John Sloan", as seen in the titles of most books about him (WorldCat, Internet Archive), the majority of references and external links in this article, and the preferred form of all databases on VIAF. Per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NCP, the most commonly used names should be used. Otherwise we risk distorting/misrepresenting how the subject is accurately and commonly known by scholars, artists, collectors, etc. While there are currently some 300+ incoming article links, a good portion can be rectified by a single change to {{Society of Illustrators' Hall of Fame}}. Wikipedia should not be out of touch with common usage everywhere else. If it is determined that the artist is not the primary topic, then John French Sloan should be moved to John Sloan (artist), per reasoning above. --Animalparty! (talk) 17:53, 12 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. This article name has always seemed to me an awkward solution to the disambiguation problem. Ewulp (talk) 22:47, 12 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. Numerous references indicate the full name, John French Sloan. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 03:44, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Quite a few of those are Wikipedia mirrors. The titles of monographs on the artist are a better indication of how he's known; this is not a case like that of Albert Pinkham Ryder or William Merritt Chase. I've just done a search for John French Sloan using JSTOR and here is a complete list of articles I found containing his name in the title:

Coco, Janice M. “Re-Viewing John Sloan's Images of Women.” Oxford Art Journal, vol. 21, no. 2, 1998

Holcomb, Grant. “John Sloan in Santa Fe.” American Art Journal, vol. 10, no. 1, 1978

Bohrod, Aaron. “On John Sloan.” College Art Journal, vol. 10, no. 1, 1950

Lobel, Michael. “John Sloan: Figuring the Painter in the Crowd.” The Art Bulletin, vol. 93, no. 3, 2011

Dennison, Mariea Caudill. “McSorley's: John Sloan's Visual Commentary on Male Bonding, Prohibition, and the Working Class.” American Studies, vol. 47, no. 2, 2006

Pach, Walter. “John Sloan To-day.” The Virginia Quarterly Review, vol. 1, no. 2, 1925

Fagg, John. “Chamber Pots and Gibson Girls: Clutter and Matter in John Sloan’s Graphic Art.” American Art, vol. 29, no. 3, 2015

Meng, Sara F. “Peggy Bacon and John Sloan: Their Urban Scenes, 1910-1928.” Woman's Art Journal, vol. 25, no. 1, 2004

Gordon, Robert. “John Sloan and John Butler Yeats: Records of a Friendship.” Art Journal, vol. 32, no. 3, 1973

Weintraub, Laural. “Women as Urban Spectators in John Sloan's Early Work.” American Art, vol. 15, no. 2, 2001

Zigrosser, Carl. “The Graphic Work of John Sloan.” The Philadelphia Museum Bulletin, vol. 51, no. 248, 1956

Clifford, Henry, et al. “Artists of the Philadelphia Press: William Glackens, George Luks, Everett Shinn, John Sloan. October 14 - November 18, 1945.” The Philadelphia Museum Bulletin, vol. 41, no. 207, 1945

Kwiat, Joseph J. “THE SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITIES OF THE AMERICAN PAINTER AND WRITER: ROBERT HENRI AND JOHN SLOAN; FRANK NORRIS AND THEODORE DREISER.” The Centennial Review, vol. 21, no. 1, 1977.

There's been no cherry-picking here; these are all of the mentions of his name in article titles from the first 150 results. By the time I'd gotten that far, article titles weren't mentioning his name at all, and false hits were becoming prevalent (e.g., Steinbruner, J., Blechman, B., Sloan, S., & Mendelsohn, J. (1989). "Breaking With Convention: The Start of New European Force Talks", Arms Control Today, 19(3), 3-9). I found no instances of "John French Sloan" at all. Ewulp (talk) 04:57, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Yes, but even more references use "John Sloan", and more importantly, more scholarly and the most reliable sources. You can find numerous references that use "William J. Clinton" but we don't re-title Bill Clinton. "John Sloan" artist returns ~198,000 results versus ~50,000 for "John French Sloan". In any case, Google hits are poor metrics: you get tons of blogs, Wikipedia mirrors, student websites, and other unreliable sources, none of which matter as references. There's also good chance that the long-standing title of this article has influenced usage among less reputable sources. --Animalparty! (talk) 05:06, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

A clarification: I found no instances of "John French Sloan" at all in article titles. I did find 2 (two) journals where his full name appears in the text of an article: Yanes, Juan. “POSTAL DE TÁNGER.” Litoral, no. 254, 2012; and Ekelund, Robert B., et al. “Age and Productivity: An Empirical Study of Early American Artists.” Southern Economic Journal, vol. 81, no. 4, 2015. Two is not very many. Ewulp (talk) 05:25, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support. He is far more widely known as John Sloan and is the overwhelming WP:Primary topic by any measure.[1] - Station1 (talk) 18:49, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. The JSTOR search has convinced me. I am crossing out my "oppose" vote and will support the proposed moves of John French Sloan → John Sloan and John Sloan → John Sloan (disambiguation). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:59, 13 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.