Talk:John Ratcliffe (governor)

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Colorful history

Any information regarding John Ratcliffe needs to be verifiable; i.e. it needs to be available in published documents for others to check. Especially when stating that Ratcliffe was an illegitimate son of King James, and with all the colorful information that follows, the material needs to be cited or it will continue to be removed. Based on the editor's name (User:Ashleymratcliffe), I wonder if we are being told a family tradition here? --Ken Gallager (talk) 16:51, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Needs improvement

This article really needs to be written better. As it is, it sounds like a 7th grade history report. Worldruler20 (talk) 18:15, 9 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More like 6th grade. The rambling suggestion that there was more than one John Ratcliffe - at least that appears to be what is implied - is particularly bad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.184.41.226 (talk) 07:07, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Section rewritten

I am moving the "History" section here as it was factually disputed. Text is below. zariane (talk) 16:17, 20 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

this is a poorly written jr high school level Juror1 (talk) 18:26, 21 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The Radcliffe family seat is Dilston, Northumberland[1].

[2].

NOTE: The alleged reference makes no statement that "Dilston" is or was the Radcliffe Family Seat. It refers only to the "garden walling of the grand mansion that belonged to James Radcliffe, 3rd Earl of Derwentwater, demolished in 1768" (58 years after the death of John Ratcliffe )

John Ratcliffe was one of four gay brothers in England. His mother was a Redclif and father was King James. The King was very famous at that time and the queen didn't want to have any children yet. He, of course, had a lot of "girlfriends" and Redclif was one of them.

NOTE: There is no documentation that King James ever had any children outside of his marriage to Anne of Denmark. ... Of all of their nine known children, only Henry, Elizabeth and Charles lived beyond infancy. Assuming that John Ratcliffe was born nine months after the marriage of 23 year old King James to 14 year old Quenne Anne, - that would make John Ratcliffe only 14 years old when he was "CAPTAIN" of the Discovery. ... At the same time Christopher Newport was 45 years old when Captain of the Susan Constant, and Bartholomew Gosnold was 34 years old when he was Captain of the Godspeed. It is extremely doubtful that King James was the father of John Radcliffe.

Later the queen and king did have a child, Charles. When the four sons became older they thought that since they was the eldest of the king's sons then they should become the new king. They were going to try to overthrough him. Well, the king found out about this and he had his men go out and capture the four sons. When they wouldn't give up, he had one of them beheaded! The other three became very scared and sought a way to escape. The Redclif's were a very high class then and the four sons were good friends with Sir Walter Raleigh. At this time he had just completed his trips to the "New World" and he was about to start another one to Virginia. The only backing they had was the Virginia Co. There were three ships that were going and John Redclif was assigned to be the captin of the smallest, the "Discovery". Because they were still running from the king, they used fake names. John used the name "John Sicklemore" from his girlfriend Mary Sicklemore. His brothers used names that were totally made up. John was sometimes called Redclif and that confused many people so they came up with the story that he just used that name because the Sicklemores were in a low class.

NOTE: In September 1607, Councillor George Kendall is accused of sowing discord and placed under arrest. At his trial, Kendall claimed that Ratcliffe was using an assumed name, and that Ratcliffe's real name was "John Sicklemore." George Kendall was convicted of conspiracy and was shot. In his "Generall History of Virginia," John Smith wrote "Ratcliffe, whose right name was Sickelmore. ^[1]

No one ever suspected the other two brothers. One of the other captains, John Smith, was a very arrogant person. Him and John Redclif were not very good friends. Smith threatened that he was going to report him to the king if he got in his way and that was how he got away with a lot of things. He was acknowledged as the best person there because of that. Finally, Redclif got very tired of putting up with Smith and he told him how it was. When Smith was returning to England, he told Redclif that he was going to get the king to send men over here to capture him and take him back. Well, Redclif knew that, when he heard that there was going to be another shipment of women and men, he knew that there were going to be guards there too. Him and a few other men that were not very good friends of the colony, got together and decided that on their next trip for trade with the Powhatan Indians, they would escape down to North Carolina and below. The set two men to be the story makers and they were to return to Jamestown and announce to the colony that they had been killed. They were to add any additional details that they thought were needed. Their story was that they went to trade with the Indians and they were taken over and John Redclif was stripped and scraped to the bone with mussels while standing in a fire. The others were said to have been killed also but somehow the two escaped and returned to the colony. John then moved to what is now Beaufort County, North Carolina with his "wife" and had 2 children. His line is still living as Ratcliffe's and they still live in Beaufort County.

NOTE: John Ratcliffes name appears in the 1609 Second Charter of Virginia as "Capt. John Sicklemore, alias Ratcliffe."

NAME:The name Redclif was messed up a lot due to not being able to read and write very well. Some of the different spellings were: Ratcliffe (the name used for John), Radcliffe, Ratcliff, Radcliff, and many more.

References

^ John Smith, "Generall Historie"

no picture

no picture no me!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.58.39.3 (talk) 19:29, 12 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Pochahontas Movie

Is he the one that was the fat guy in Pochahontas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by JenniferBui0518 (talk • contribs) 01:24, 16 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any basis for the critical representation of Ratcliffe? It seems that representing him as the villain, rather than the Indians, was a deliberate distortion.203.184.41.226 (talk) 07:05, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I need to know when he was born, and this article doesn't say it, that's not good at all.

Why is it hard to know when he was born? BlazeTheMovieFan (talk) 15:13, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Records may simply not have survived. We don't know Shakespeare's birthday for that matter. Not a failing of wikipedia, but a failing of archival standards some 400 years ago. Benea (talk) 15:34, 15 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Although 'John Ratcliffe' was a very popular name during Jamestown's first years, there were only two that arrived."

Popular in what way? A lot of people naming their kids John Ratcliffe? Mentioned a lot in letters? Well liked around town? Define 'popular'. 50.45.242.183 (talk) 00:50, 7 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] John Smith, "Generall Historie"

[1]