Talk:John Nathan

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Jewish categorization

@William Allen Simpson: Hello. Why is Jewish categorization not appropriate here? The "non-practicing" mentioned in this article is a reference to author's largely unobservant upbringing decided by his father, and his non-Jewish education. However, Nathan writes about being Jewish in his memoir and self-identifies numerous times, including as a "Jewish boy in New York" and a "Jew from Thompson Square Park". An entire chapter is dedicated to his Jewish identity and his Jewish wedding. Nathan may not be some Qabalistic scholar, but surely Jewish categories are not so strictly defined to people whose notability is connected to their faith. As for the other reasoning, I'm not sure why we're assuming his Judaism is not matrilineal. He does not spell as much out in his book, but his mother's family name "Weil" is a Jewish surname...... Regardless, Nathan's own identity as Jewish, which is both an ethnic and religious identity, is what is relevant here. I'm not seeing what WP:EGRS says to support the removal of Category:Jewish American writers from this article. Οἶδα (talk) 11:37, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

For starters, none of that is in the article. WP:NOR policy, no article, no category. Also, we don't guess by surname. (Weil is a German surname, but while many Jews have German surnames, that is not definitive.) If that makes it into the article, that would tag him "Jewish American". To be a Jewish American writer (see WP:DEFINING), the actual writing has to be about being a Jewish American, and would also have to be in the article, referenced by independent reliable sources (not a memoir).
William Allen Simpson (talk) 12:46, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Except his Jewish background is in the article. But I suppose you want me to clearly add into the article a sentence that he identifies as a Jew? Which is something I almost never see in other articles, where the category is usually reflecting a single phrase like "born into a Russian-Jewish family" seen at the top of the biographical details. As for guessing by surname, I was never suggesting to use that as source (Hence the "...... Regardless"). I was facetiously responding to your patrilineal Jew assumption. And as for the defining concept, are you suggesting I categorize him under Category:American Jews instead? That sounds fine and logical to me. If what you say is true (the actual writing has to be about being a Jewish American), then unfortunately the Jewish categorization on Wikipedia in general is an absolute mess. The subcategorization based on occupation is riddled with articles where their Jewishness is not a modifier of their occupation. I myself wondered why the Jewish Japanologists category existed in the first place. I'm not trying to pull a WP:OTHER, but it's clearly a systemic issue if what you say is true. Οἶδα (talk) 14:04, 31 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]