Talk:John Grandisson

Editorializing

Lobsterthermidor, what source supports this: literally "from the big noise" ... de + ablative of grandis-e and of sonus-i (m)? And how is Latinisations invented by mediaeval scribes are notorious for their absurdity NPOV or relevant? Perhaps such Latinisations are in fact clever and amusing. Srnec (talk) 00:17, 16 January 2020 (UTC)

Yes, they are clever and amusing, I agree, but clever and amusing can also be absurd. That's why so much has been written on this topic. I think it was Horace Round (PS, no it was GEC Complete Peerage, Vol.3, 1913, Appendix C, p.610) who commented on the most famously absurd one (a knight whose name appears as de Aureus Testiculos, "from the golden-balls"), which certainly made me chuckle. It must have been coined by a very clever scribe, with a mischievous streak. As for de Grandisono (As for example seen on his seal; also as on his father's writ to attend Parliament (GEC Complete Peerage, vol.6, p.60) literally "from the big noise"), I think all WP requires when translating from foreign languages is "competence", not defined. So I'm self-declaring myself "competent" in this area. I went so far as to give the grammatical breakdown for those unfamiliar with Latin. (de + ablative of grandis-e and of sonus-i (m)); the crest of the Grandson family of Grandson, Bergundy (from which the Bishop was descended), was A bell argent with motto: à petite cloche, grand son ("from a little bell a big noise"). If a better source is required, add a cn tag and one will be supplied. That's the proper way to do it, not just to delete all the text. All it takes for someone who wants to improve this article in this regard is a quick google, which produces a source: Armorial General, By Johannes Baptist Rietstap, 1950, p.816[1]. WP is a collaborative project. It also tells us that the crest was "une cloche d'or" (a gold bell"). By the way I think the addition "Grandisson donated the tenor bell in the south tower of Exeter Cathedral. Named "Grandison" is an excellent one. That was a big and clever joke played by the Bishop ("from a little bell a big noise"), which makes no sense/impact if the text on the Swiss family's motto is deleted. Naming of bells is known to be an opportunity for clever word play. I have restored the text, with the improved ref. Lobsterthermidor (talk) 12:09, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

I've tried to remember my original source for this practice of absurd Latinisations - I did the work about 10 years ago when I was new to WP and cannot put my finger on the source at the moment (I think it was Horace Round), but a flavour of the discussion is as follows, by Thorne, ed. of the Phillimore series of Domesday Book translations (no page number) [2]: "William malbanc, is William Bad-Bench, but the context, whether a prank-inspired collapsible seat or bad carpentry (an incompetent bricoleur) or something else, is unknown; just as Hugo malus transitus/ malt(r)aversis Hugo 'Bad Passage' (i.e. Maltravers) or 'Poor Crossing', but whether he had got himself shipwrecked or was 'difficult to get pastin battle',as Tengvik suggested, is uncertain". I'm on the look out for my original source. (PS my source was GEC Complete Peerage, Vol.3, 1913, Appendix C, p.610)Lobsterthermidor (talk) 14:11, 29 January 2020 (UTC)