Talk:John Gerovich

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group.

Australia: Western Australia / Australian rules football Low‑importance

	Australia portal John Gerovich is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Western Australia (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Australian rules football (assessed as Low-importance).
	Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian^{What's this?} at the National Library of Australia, or the State Library of Western Australia.
	The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance.

Freopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiTown Freopedia, and is the target of a QRpedia link. Statistics are available.FreopediaWikipedia:FreopediaTemplate:FreopediaFreopedia articles

It is requested that an image or photograph of John Gerovich be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Non Free image use

The use of the photograph File:JohnGerovich.jpg has been rejected by Hullaballoo Wolfowitz claiming it fails WP:NFCC#8. This reads:

8. Contextual significance. Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase readers' understanding of the article topic, and its omission would be detrimental to that understanding.

The content guideline for this condition reads:

Two of the most common circumstances in which an item of non-free content can meet the contextual significance criterion are:
where the item is itself the subject of sourced commentary in the article, or

where only by including such non-free content, can the reader identify an object, style, or behavior, that is a subject of discussion in the article.

The photo is discussed in the the article and the FUR that's on the file page states that it's a "historically significant photograph", which has been made into a statue (which we have a free use photo of in the article) and hence seeing the original photo is important to understand the iconic nature of it. And the photo - not just the player - is discussed in the article.

The other editor has rejected that argument with the comment 'be that as it may, an unsourced claim that a photo is "iconic" doesn't come close to satisfying NFCC requirements, and wouldn't be sufficient even if reliably sourced', but it is sourced.

I don't want to get into a wikilawyering argument or an edit war, but am I missing something or is he? The-Pope (talk) 14:10, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that that's no question that the play itself is critically iconic, but the specific photograph of that play is not, and you don't have sources discussing the image itself, which means that it fails the NFCC#8 test (as it's just one person leaping over another to catch a ball, something that's not too hard to envision) Add that we have a free photo of the statue that recreates the image itself rather well, and that also means that NFCC#1, replaceability, is also not met, since the statue serves as a reasonably fair representation of the play. --MASEM (t) 15:05, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but actually it's the exact opposite. Plenty of similar marks are taken, but very few are captured (especially in the 1956 pre-digital age) so perfectly. I'll expand the text further and search for more refs. The-Pope (talk) 15:34, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Masem is on target. If this were an article about the game itself (or the play itself) the image might pass muster, but certainly not in a BLP. Take a look at Helmet Catch, as "iconic" a play as there's been in US football. A nonfree image is used only in the article about the play itself, not in the biography of David Tyree, who made the catch, or even in the Super Bowl XLII article (and if you look through the file and page histories, you'll see it was removed from the articles for the players involved for failing NFCC#8). Also, the term "iconic" is thrown around pretty loosely in NFCC discussions: here the event is principally described merely as "one of" the subject's "famous" plays, apparently noteworthy primarily because of the statue, and we have a satisfactory free image of that. The Big Bad Wolfowitz (aka Hullaballoo). Treated like dirt by many administrators since 2006. (talk) 18:32, 8 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]