Talk:John Crockett (frontiersman)

Unclear timing on Davy coming back and John dying

Hi all. Some sources vary on whether John was alive or not when Davy returned home. He is supposed to have died in 1796, but some sources (namely the Abbott book) mention John talking to people around then. The book may just be wrong (it seems to be more of a folk history.) If anybody knows better, please feel free to update. --AW (talk) 16:30, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

Problems raised on a failed Did you know? entry

Here they are, from User:Orlady, and my responses

FTR, the DYK nom at Template:Did you know nominations/John Crockett (frontiersman) has not failed yet. If issues identified during DYK reviews are resolved in a timely manner, the item can be featured on DYK. I've provided additional details below on a few of the items that I commented on in my review (not enough time to address everything). --Orlady (talk) 17:38, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

• If John Crockett died in 1794, as stated in the lead, how could he have hired his son out to drive cattle in 1798 (as stated in the last paragraph) or done the other things mentioned in the last paragraph?

The Abbott book says he was 12 when his dad hired him out. I'll look and see if his death is wrong. --AW (talk) 07:00, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

I have yet to see a reference that gives the 1794 death date. That would have been when Davy was 8 years old. Tennessee History Classroom says his father died when he was 12. Considering that Davy Crockett's own autobiography and other sources contain accounts of things that happened between Davy and his father after Davy was 12, that source (which ought to be credible, but cites no references) cannot be credited. --Orlady (talk) 17:38, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

• The recent book Lion of the West is cited as a source for Crockett's Huguenot ancestry, but that book clearly and emphatically states that no connection has been established between the Huguenot Crocketts and the family of Davy Crockett, in spite of frequent claims that this is "well-documented fact." Additionally, the article states that the family tradition that John or his father was born on the voyage to America from Ireland is wrong, because "in fact John's grandfather, William David Crockett, was registered as having been born in New Rochelle, New York in 1709", citing only what appears to be a personal genealogy website (I can't access it, but it's not likely to be a WP:RS) as the source for this "fact" -- and providing a wonderful example of how the unsupported claim of Huguenot ancestry has been perpetuated (New Rochelle was settled by Huguenots). As a general rule, modern books with footnotes (like Lion of the West) are more reliable than genealogy websites!

"Story of the French" says he was Huguenot. I'll add it, but mention it's unclear. --AW (talk) 07:00, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

• The article seems to confound the Davy Crockett Birthplace state park near Limestone with the Crockett Tavern Museum in Morristown. They are distinctly different places.

Can you elaborate --AW (talk) 07:00, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

What's to elaborate? He was born at or near the site of what is now the Davy Crockett Birthplace state park near Limestone. Later his father had a tavern in Morristown, now commemorated by the Crockett Tavern Museum. If you don't understand the difference, perhaps you should look at a map of Tennessee. The article is wrong where it says: "..the Crocketts moved to near Morristown, Tennessee in 1792 and built a tavern on a newly-constructed stage road... A museum stands on the site and is housed in a reconstruction of the tavern, the Davy Crockett Birthplace State Park." The tavern reconstruction is in Morristown, not in the state park. --Orlady (talk) 17:38, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

• There are still several unsourced passages in the article.
• I find a number of discrepancies between sources regarding details like how long Davy Crockett was away from home after he skipped out of school. This is due in part to the vague and folksy conversational style of the 19th century sources. Lion of the West seems more authoritative, on the whole. (However, it appears to me that he left in 1799 and returned in 1802, having been gone for about 30 months, give or take a couple.)

Yeah, working on that --AW (talk) 07:00, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

• Lion of the West indicates that John Crockett was still alive in 1802 when Davy Crockett returned home -- and it tells about things that happened between father and son at that time. I find no source for the statement that he died when Davy was away.

Working on that too --AW (talk) 07:00, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Most sources give his date of death as 1834. [1] -- Racklever (talk) 12:50, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I hesitate to use a genealogy page but I guess it's all we've got now. --AW (talk) 16:24, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

An absence of authoritative information from reliable sources does not justify publishing information from an unreliable source that happens to be convenient. The lead sentence can give his birthdate as "(born 1754)", but in the absence of authoritative information about the date of death, the article should not list any date as if it is real. Instead, document what's reliably reported (i.e., that John Crockett was alive in 1802) and discuss the uncertainty (i.e., that some published sources indicate that he died in [fill in the dates and cite sources] and that some genealogy websites give a death date of 1834). --Orlady (talk) 17:38, 20 December 2011 (UTC)