Talk:John Buscema/Archive 6 (2008 - April-June)

Now that the probation is over...

...as of May 8, I would simply like to suggest that to avoid edit wars that we each, voluntarily, agree to discuss changes to the page (except for obvious vandalism, typos, etc.) and seek feedback before proceeding. I submit myself to this voluntarily if User:Skyelarke would do the same. We each may not like it, but it's for the greater good of the article and WikiProject Comics. --Tenebrae (talk) 02:19, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

I can see by his edits that User:Skyelarke did not agree with my proposal. I will continue to hope that he will discuss any controversial edits in order that we may avoid the unpleasant edit wars of the past, and be able to work collegially. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:52, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Just FYI, Skyelarke changed names today, to Scott Free (talk · contribs). Since I am one of the more recently engaged "uninvolved admins" on the scene here, I wanted to let everyone know that I am aware of the name change. If any questions come up, please feel free to ask.  :) --Elonka 02:08, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

A reminder that the formal channels for arbitration questions are :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Arbitration_enforcement

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Clarifications_and_other_requests

Some other experienced editors who have responded:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rlevse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Thatcher

Etiquette reminder:

Never address other users in a heading: A heading should invite all editors to respond to the subject addressed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_page_guidelines#New_topics_and_headings_on_talk_pages

--Scott Free (talk) 17:52, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Unreliable source

Going from the Holo-Man claim here that neither columnist Scott Shaw nor the Holo-Man entry's sources can confirm,, I went investigating the source of this. The only source is a JB checklist by collector Michel Maillot, who claims JB did the pencils, uncredited, despite the published credits. He doesn't give a source for this, and unless I'm misunderstanding, he collect JB art, so he cannot be a reliable source for "uncredited" JB work. I'm not saying him specifically, but any collector can increase the value of an unsigned, uncredited page of art by claiming, with no provenance, that it's the work of a well-known artist.

For that reason, I'm also removing the Star Trek Power Records reference until a disinterested third-party source can confirm. --Tenebrae (talk) 15:28, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

The list doesn't state that he's uncredited, but that would be the case, uncredited Buscema work - For the Holo-Man thing, Joe Giella is the credited artist,pencils and inks - I'm assuming Buscema did uncredited pencils but not the whole story- I haven't seen this work personally -

The Star Trek stories don't have any artist credits- maybe just the writer - the first one has Buscema pencils with the Neal Adams studio inks, the second one,the same thing except that Buscema even inks a few pages himself - I've seen scans of these stories - but I don't have time to provide further proof and I trust the checklist - I've verified hundreds of entries and only once did I catch a mistake (it was a partially incorrect inking credit).

--Scott Free (talk) 20:28, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Responding to the former Skylarke: I truly hope we can collaborate effectively despite the necessity of my stating that your assumptions (the phrase "I'm assuming") cannot be part of encyclopedic-level research. As well, as much as it pains me to have to say this, your phrases "I haven't seen this work personally" and "I've verified hundreds of entries" suggests original research, which is disallowed. And I'm afraid that you personally trusting this collector's checklist, or are that collector himself, really has no bearing on WP:VERIFY. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:42, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's an additional ref for Star Trek -

Comics in other media  
   CONAN (pen/) with Peter Pan Records    
   STAR TREK (pen/) 1977 Peter Pan Records  > 77  

http://www.bailsprojects.com/(S(sqjxmbzn5ohvis45jzd5sw45))/bio.aspx?Name=BUSCEMA%2c+JOHN

Here's a listing that indicates that Giella did possibly have uncredited assists -

PR-36 [NOT ADAMS] AMAZING ADVENTURES OF HOLO-MAN (Giella/ ? ) /* 1978 *BACK COVER: Kids Listening with DC SUPERHEROES

http://www.nealadams.com/records.html

--Scott Free (talk) 21:54, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Bails' Who's Who is certainly considered authoritative. The Neal Adams site does not mention Buscema, and we cannot use our own guesses or original research. As long as I'm here, I'll add the Bails citation to the Conan and Stark Trek references. --Tenebrae (talk) 00:42, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Reliable source

Although self-published online sources are generally considered largely unacceptable, I maintain that the list has an excellent level of accuracy (i.e. the data can be double-checked with comparable sources by anyone and shown to be very accurate) and that the author has a sufficiently strongly established reputation in a relevant field (i.e has received several published credits as a helpful resource person to several authors on the topic) making the list an acceptably reliable source.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Self-published_sources_.28online_and_paper.29

Protocol reminder -

Any material lacking a reliable source may be removed, but editors may object if you remove material without giving them sufficient time to provide references. If you want to request a source for an unsourced statement, consider tagging a sentence by adding the {{fact}} template, a section with {{unreferencedsection}}, or the article with {{refimprove}} or {{unreferenced}}. Alternatively, you may move material lacking a reliable source to the talk page. Use the edit summary to give an explanation of your edit. You may also leave a note on the talk page or an invisible HTML comment on the article page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Verifiability#Burden_of_evidence

--Scott Free (talk) 00:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Scott Free's recent edit, reverted by Emperor, was to a mirror site that contains the version largely written by Scott Free's former identity, Skyelarke, which was disallowed by both RfC consensus and a lengthy Arbitration. Aside from Wikipedia's strictures against linking to mirror sites, this was a back-door attempt to thwart the letter/spirit of the consensus and the Arbitration, and should be brought up to the Arbitration admins if it is attempted again. --Tenebrae (talk) 01:23, 19 July 2008 (UTC)