Talk:John Buford

Update September 9, 2006

I have performed some minor updates, particularly concerning his family and early career. However, this article has a number of opinions about Buford's capabilities and pejorative statements about other officers, all of which need citations. I have listed these with the notation ‹The template Talkfact is being considered for merging.› . Would the original editor making these claims please provide citations in the near future, or we will need to strike the offending statements. Hal Jespersen 22:04, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Quote

Is this the guy who said something to the effect of "Get there firstest with the mostest"? Wikiphyte 15:25, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

No, that was supposedly Nathan Bedford Forrest, although the quote is disputed. Hal Jespersen 16:32, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the info buddy! Wikiphyte 08:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Internment

He ought to be listed in the West Point Cemetery article (which is linked to Buford's Wiki article), under "notable internments"....Just a thought. Engr105th 06:41, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Article semi-protected for a week

Due to a rather extensive vandalism spree today, from multiple IP addresses, I have semi-protected the article for 1 week. Georgewilliamherbert 00:14, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

edits March 20, 2009

I have edited out the blizzards of bold-italic text from today's edits to meet our manual of style for quotes. Can you please provide citations for the added material about his death? Thanks, Hal Jespersen (talk) 23:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)

High Ground

To the best of my knowledge the place Buford elected to stop and defend was Seminary Ridge, not Cemetary Ridge. As you can see from the maps of Day One of the campaign (on wikipedia) that first day's fighting took place north of the town of Gettysburg, not on the ridges SOUTH of town where the more famous fighting took place. I'm a Buford fan, but I always get confused when people tell how he selected the ground for the battle. Any thoughts? 66.239.132.90 (talk) 22:59, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

The conventional wisdom is that he understood the value of the high ground to the south of the town (Cemetery Hill and Culp's Hill). He used Seminary Ridge as his defensive position because he wanted to protect the town itself as well as the strong ground to the south of it until the infantry arrived. I say "conventional wisdom" because there is some controversy about whether Buford or Reynolds was the one responsible for "selecting the battlefield." Hal Jespersen (talk) 15:39, 30 June 2009 (UTC)

In fact, he decided to defend McPherson's Ridge which is still west of Seminary Ridge. --Reibeisen (talk) 17:57, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Photograph of Buford's grave monument

I thought it would be good to add a photo of the monument at Buford's grave. The "Death and Legacy" section describes the monument, and a photo in that section would reinforce that. I am not an experienced Wikipedia editor and do not know if this is a good idea nor whether I should do it myself vs. rely on someone more competent. Any feedback is appreciated. Thank you. Skawood (talk) 17:22, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Final Promotion

I know the story of his deathbed promotion, but Eicher & Eicher (whose book includes a real good collection of dates from original documents) claim he was promoted on 5 December to rank from 1 July. --Reibeisen (talk) 17:59, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for sharing this. I have Longacre's book here, and it doesn't mention Jul. 1, but it cites several sources, including page 215 of the Sanford book already cited in the article. Sanford does include a footnote on page 215 (available at archive.org) saying the promotion was to Jul. 1, but it didn't cite a source that I saw. Do you think it would be good to mention the Jul. 1 date in the article here? And if so, how to cite it, maybe from the Eicher & Eicher book or one of its sources? By the way, Longacre also cites Lincoln's letter to Stanton from the USMA Library, and I believe that's this letter: [1]https://usmalibrary.omeka.net/items/show/124. Dated Dec. 16, 1863, 159 years ago today! Skawood (talk) 23:19, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

I will put in the article in an appropriate spot in the near future something along the lines that Buford was appointed major general by President Lincoln on December 5, 1863 to rank from July 5, 1863, but was not nominated by Lincoln until December 23, 1863 (after Buford's death on December 16) and was confirmed by the U.S. Senate only on June 13, 1864. Eicher also notes that the appointment was posthumous (obviously because of the later nomination and confirmation) and was terminated by Buford's death on December 16. That shows it was only a posthumous honor - although Buford was told of Lincoln's appointment of him as major general before his death. All of this information is found at Eicher, page 702.

As further explanation or information for anyone looking at this post, I believe the following is correct and can be verified at the pages cited in Civil War High Commands by the Eichers. The rank date is only a seniority date. See Eicher pages xix-xxi and 30-35. Specifically at page 33 in note on grades and ranks rank is stated in parenthesis as "(the relative precedent or priority of command within the same or equivalent grade)." Officers appointed to a grade (often mistakenly called a rank, as Eicher states) could be given priority in seniority, which was important in some assignments, by backdating the date of rank. Buford's rank was backdated to honor him for his service at Gettysburg. Lincoln knew that Buford was dying and this would not give him any seniority. Buford was not a major general in the field two days after Gettysburg. This was an honor given to a heroic dying man. It is was a posthumous appointment, not confirmed within Buford's lifetime. (It is possible that some officers were assigned to duties as a general officer or in command of a unit generally commanded by general officer before an appointment was confirmed, but the officer was commanding under his current confirmed grade and should not be described in the higher grade as of that date.)

I think Eicher makes it clear in the preface, and it is certainly the case, that a researcher must go to the grades and ranks sections starting on page 701 to get the complete picture of a the various dates for an officer's promotion, which are not fully shown in the biographical blurbs. These later sections show where each appointment falls in line with the requirements to become fully effective as Eicher also describes them in the preface pages cited. Donner60 (talk) 07:22, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Pejorative Term Used

"Rebel" is a pejorative term. More proper would be Confederate or Southern. Ray Lee Wayne (talk) 04:14, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

 Fixed. –CWenger (^ • @) 15:36, 15 January 2024 (UTC)