Talk:Jingū taima

Some issues with the article

Hello, I am trying to improve this article but there are some issues I can't really find an answer for:

1) Should 神宮大麻 be romanized as Jingū Taima, Jingu Taima, Jingū taima or Jingu taima? Capitalization is important on Wikipedia and doing a quick search on Google I see all variations. Should all these variations have a redirect? Which one should be the title?

2) Is Ōnusa the same thing as Jingū Taima? Some pages (including the Japanese page for Jingū Taima ja:神宮大麻, also there is not even an Ōnusa page on the Japanese Wikipedia ja:おおぬさ [there is actually an Ōnusa article ja:大麻 (神道), as corrected by Immanuelle]) claim they are the same, but looking at the two pages they seem different. Jingū Taima seems to be a small wand inside a paper with writings and seals, and Ōnusa seems to be just a wand. As I understand by the Jingū Taima article, Ōnusa is basically an older version of Jingū Taima, so it would not be the same as the current Jingū Taima. And as I understand by the Ōnusa article, Ōnusa are traditionally used in Shinto rituals in general. Back to the Jingū Taima article, it seems like the Jingū Taima are only a ofuda issued by the Ise Grand Shrine specifically. If they are the same, it will need to have some more clarification and the two pages should be merged.

I also added a "rough translation" tag because the article is a bit confusing at some parts. AnAkemie (talk) 17:51, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@AnAkemie there is a Japanese article on Onusa here https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%A7%E9%BA%BB_(%E7%A5%9E%E9%81%93) the Hiragana just doesn't redirect there. I hope that helps you with figuring things out. Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 18:05, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@Immanuelle Thank you. I did not see any linking to Ōnusa on that article and I just assumed there wasn't an article. Do you have a understanding in Japanese? I am finding this "to be exact Ōnusa" part on the Japanese article confusing because they seem to be very different things. AnAkemie (talk) 18:17, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@AnAkemie my understanding is limited. I'm going to remove the sentence from the lede until someone can verify it in the cited source 大野由之 (March 2014). "神宮の大麻について : 誕生の背景と性質の相関" [Jingu Taima : The Background of Its Establishment and Interrelation with the Property]. 皇學館大学神道研究所紀要. 30: 187–230. as my inclination is that someone made a mistake on the Japanese article. Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 18:32, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@Immanuelle I am assuming someone associated 神宮大麻 with 大麻 and the 神宮 is what makes things different. The Ōnusa article that you mentioned ja:大麻 (神道) makes a distinction between the two, different from the ja:神宮大麻 article that associates one with another. I am inclined to believe the Ōnusa Japanese article is the correct one: "This item describes Shinto tools, Onusa. Please see "Jingu Taima" for the Ise Jingu's Ofuda and Taima that wrapped it." (It is a bit of a rough translation but it is understandable). I have zero knowledge in Japanese, I found this article by searching terms. Maybe someone with appropriate knowledge can help us in the future. AnAkemie (talk) 19:35, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

@AnAkemie I figured it out. Jingu Taima is sometimes called Jingu Onusa. I believe it's Kunyomi vs Onyomi Immanuelle 💗 (please tag me) 08:42, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

@Immanuelle Great. I think my issues have been resolved. Another thing that would be great to solve is these many redlinks (on the article and on the references and bibliography) but they seem too much work to be done. Also there's a problem with reference 44 (and reference 44 should be merged with reference 47). I would try to fix these things but it's a pain to be done on mobile. The translation is a bit rough in my opinion but it will need to be revised by a third person. AnAkemie (talk) 18:05, 29 July 2022 (UTC)