Talk:Jiaozi

The allegedly-Chinese term "油辣"

The article says "[gyōza] are always served with ... and/or rāyu (ラー油 (辣油), known as 油辣 in China, red chili pepper-flavored sesame oil)."

Can someone confirm that the term "油辣" is indeed used in Chinese? I've never seen the term used and all the Mandarin-speaking Chinese I've met use "辣油" to refer to a chili pepper-flavored oil. --71.175.23.226 02:42, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Jiaozi and Gyoza

On 06:13, 21 June 2007 User:Sr13 deleted Jiaozi "housekeeping, history merge". But the pages Jiaozi and Gyoza seem to be distinct pages, each with its own edit history, and I cannot find similar edit versions in the two which might point to an old copy-paste move. But we can discuss an ordinary text merge between Jiaozi and Gyoza. Anthony Appleyard 10:19, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

There was always only ONE article until today. If you look at the histories of Gyoza & Jiaozi, you will see that the cut & paste move occured on June 4, 2004. That is the reason for the histmerge request.

Also, note that the 2 articles were unilaterally separated today by Wikimachine, and there is discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Japan‎#Gyoza & Jiaoji regarding this.

I believe that the 2 articles need to be merged back again into Jiaozi. (Gyoza should be a redirect.)--Endroit 10:28, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

• I have done the histmerge. The recent edits of Gyoza are still in Gyoza. It seems that during the 4 June 2004 copy-and-paste moe the text was edited so much that I did not recognize it as being the same article. Anthony Appleyard 10:45, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the histmerge. Looks good!--Endroit 10:50, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Origin or meaning of the name "jiaozi"

This was added to the article, without citing any sources:
"The corresponding Chinese characters for "Jiaozi" is a reference to the arrival of the Chinese New Year at midnight. According to the Chinese calendar system, "Tiangan Dizhi" (Heavenly stems and Earthly branches) is used to designate the time in accordance to the Chinese zodiac. "Jiao" in Chinese means "join," while "zi" is a reference to the first and eleventh hour (branch) of Dizhi - where midnight is situated."

However this seems to contradict what is already in the article, which is from Norman, Jerry (1988) Chinese, Cambridge University Press, p76-77:
"Jiaozi were so named because they were horn shaped. The Chinese for "horn" is jiǎo (角), and jiaozi was originally written with the Chinese character for "horn", but later it was replaced by a specific character 餃, which has the food radical on the left and the phonetic component jiāo on the right."
In this theory, "zi" is merely the "zi" in many nouns, eg "baozi" (filled steamed bun), and has no meaning other than indication that a word is a noun.

LDHan (talk) 19:02, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the first origin is pure speculation as the character jiǎo (餃) means dumpling. That's all it's used for. It does not mean join. The character jiāo (交) means to turn over, hand over, cross or intersect but is also used as a phonetic element in lots of words (佼, 蛟, 姣, 郊). zi is ubiquitous in nouns in Chinese. You can stick it, and many dialects do stick it, after almost every one-character noun for rhythmic balance or to convert adjectives to nouns. See: 褲子 (pants), 桃子 (peach), 空子 (gap). 98.207.169.196 (talk) 15:57, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Since there doesn't seem to be evidence for this I'm removing the text. From what I can tell the point is that eating 餃子 on the eve of the new year started as a tradition because it sounds kind of like the second part of 更歲交子, but that's not actually where the word comes from. --ian (talk) 19:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Mandu

I suggest re-adding the section entitled "Korean version" below, but without the mantou claim.

The Korean name of the dish is mandu (만두), a cognate derived from Chinese steamed bread mantou (饅頭), but culinarily closer to jiaozi. Popular fillings for Korean dumplings include pork, beef, cabbage, squash, cellophane noodles and kimchi. They are often deep fried for a lighter, crispier texture. Steamed mandu is also very popular, and can come in various shapes: a "horn", crimped edges, a horn with the sides pressed together for a prettier, rounder look, etc. Generally mandu are dipped in soy sauce with vinegar and red pepper flakes.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 04:46, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

agegyoza

Need a bit on these.--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 09:47, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Also in Russian cuisine

"Potstickers" also show up in Russian cuisine where they are named пельмени (pelmeni), which is plural. The origins of this word are not Slavic, but Finno-Ugric and literally mean "ear-shaped bread". Apparently they entered Russian cuisine via Finno-Ugric peoples living in and around the Urals, who perhaps got the idea from highly-mobile Mongols and Turkic ethnicities living on the steppes to the south. LADave (talk) 19:26, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Wok

It says, “Guotie are shallow-fried in a wok (Mandarin "guo").” This is slightly inaccurate. The word wok is borrowed from a Cantonese word, whose pronunciation in Mandarin is huò, not guo (See Wiktionary and Google Translate). However, 锅/鍋 guō ‘pot’ is a legitimate word in Mandarin.--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 19:57, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: ESL Workshop

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 19 February 2024 and 18 March 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Yuanxi Wang (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Yuanxi Wang (talk) 21:03, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

"Potstickers"

Thanks to Rectangular-affix for bringing up the topic, but I have the 1945 edition of How To Eat in front of me and in that edition jiaozi are called "wraplings" (page 212). I don't see any reference to guotie. The YR Chao interview does not mention jiaozi, only that Rulan translated the book (p. 175-176) Which is the 1945 edition, with no reference to "potstickers" or where it appears for the first time. But then he says that Rulan complained that he had so many footnotes. In short, there is no evidence which one was responsible, YR, Rulan, or Buwei. Any one of them could have done it and another put it into the later edition. ch (talk) 17:16, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: ESL Workshop

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 8 October 2024 and 23 October 2024. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jerry378 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Zhz288 (talk) 19:39, 9 October 2024 (UTC)