Talk:Jerome Sinclair

Morley’s ownership

Being an owner of a restaurant is just as highly notable as his football career and should be noted in his initial bio. Mysteronfax (talk) 23:56, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Agreed Historian442 (talk) 23:58, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Jerome Sinclair's Involvence with Morley's

Jerome Terence Sinclair (born 20 September 1996) is an English professional footballer who plays as a forward, and a fast food franchisee of Morley's. I believe this is notable enough to be included in the first line, as I'm sure other editors would agree. Historian442 (talk) 23:56, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

I completely agree with this. It has been notes in multiple news articles and has gathered lots of notice on his social media’s. I would definitely say this is as notable as his unfortunate football career Mysteronfax (talk) 23:58, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

The opening section of a Wikipedia article is to describe what made him notable enough to qualify for an article at all. Ownership of a fried chicken franchise isn't what made him notable, and the only reason his business has gained any attention at all, let alone being noted in multiple news articles, is because he used to be a professional footballer. That's why the Athletic had a piece on him, and that's why the tabloids picked it up. All footballers have some sort of work outside of or after their football career, and Mr Sinclair is no exception. Many former footballers own small businesses, and those are approximately never mentioned in the opening of their articles on here because that's not what the opening sentence is for.

And the idea that it's a "very large step for Morley's" so Mr Sinclair should be credited with it, as one of you wrote in an edit summary, is not what Wikipedia's about. It's an encyclopedia, not a breaking news site or an advert for a fast food chain, so I'll be removing the inappropriate new infobox and the postal address of the shop after writing this. There's no problem with including the existence of his business in an Outside football section, so long as it's written factually and neutrally, but giving it any more prominence than that is giving it undue weight. cheers, Struway2 (talk) 09:49, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

This should not be included, as per Struway's comment above. The idea that we would include this content in the opening sentence of a former professional footballer is laughable. Which, I suspect, is the reason these single-purpose accounts keep adding it. I've brought this discussion to attention at WT:FOOTY for more input. Mattythewhite (talk) 21:58, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

lly agree that it should not be in the lede per UNDUE.u GiantSnowman 22:00, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

Agree; Wikipedia has an article because he is or was a professional footballer. Content about any subsequent occupation is incidental and belongs in a post-retirement section or similar and is not worthy of extended coverage. Eagleash (talk) 22:06, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

100% agree that it should be mentioned in the body of the article but does not merit inclusion in the opening sentence, in the same way that I would not expect the first sentence of Neil Webb's article to refer to him as a "former footballer and postman" (even though his working as such after his playing career attracted a little bit of media coverage) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 22:43, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

yes but investing into opening the first Morley's above the Thames is clearly a much more notable achievement then being a postman. It is not fair to compare them. Historian442 (talk) 16:48, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Agreed. These days his football career is hardly notable and the opening of a restaurant especially one so notable for its location should be mentioned and I believe with his own social media and the morley's socials advertising it multiple times it is what he wants to be known for these days so its notability is easily enough to be included in the lead statement. Mysteronfax (talk) 16:52, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Jerome Sinclair's involvement with Morley's has no place in the lede. WP:UNDUE. Paul Vaurie (talk) 08:58, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Has no real place in the article actually. It is clearly WP:UNDUE. It is just a franchise, and fails WP:20YT. There are many things we can say about him outside of football, both before and after his career, but no case has been made for including this snippet. It just reads as a bit of trivia, without any context or reason for being there. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 10:08, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Just because it is a franchise doesn’t mean he doesn’t still run it and own it. That’s a very important part of his life and should most definitely be noted in his wiki page. Mysteronfax (talk) 12:12, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Noted (briefly) maybe.. in the lead, no. Eagleash (talk) 12:38, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Disagreed, should be noted in the lead. Historian442 (talk) 12:47, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Multiple experienced editors (including Admin.) have said 'no'. Time to leave it. Eagleash (talk)

Noted (briefly) maybe.. - I don't see any argument for a whole new section headed outside football just to briefly mention that he is a fried chicken franchisee. The whole subject is a bit of nonsense. If there were a larger section about his personal life outside football, then there might be the case for a sentence about this, perhaps, but as it stands, it should not be there. I removed it and the SPA edit warred it back in. Does anyone want to make a case it should remain? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:26, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

there was a originally larger section about his personal life outside football until it was removed for not being "precise" enough, even though there was multiple sources backing it up. Historian442 (talk) 18:31, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

When? Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 19:12, 18 January 2023 (UTC)