Talk:Jeremias Falck

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Jeremias Falck article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Biography: Arts and Entertainment

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the arts and entertainment work group.

Visual arts

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Visual arts, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of visual arts on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Visual artsWikipedia:WikiProject Visual artsTemplate:WikiProject Visual artsvisual arts articles

This page is affected by the Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote. The following rules apply in the case of disputes:

For Gdańsk, use the name Danzig between 1308 and 1945
For Gdańsk, use the name Gdańsk before 1308 and after 1945
In biographies of clearly German persons, the name should be used in the form Danzig (Gdańsk) and later Danzig exclusively
In biographies of clearly Polish persons, the name should be used in the form Gdańsk (Danzig) and later Gdańsk exclusively.
For Gdansk and other locations that share a history between Germany and Poland, the first reference of one name in an article should also include a reference to other names, e.g. Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland) or Gdańsk (Danzig). An English language reference that primarily uses this name should be provided on the talk page if a dispute arises.
Reverts to conform with community consensus are excluded from the three-revert rule (3RR). Only the place names can be reverted exempt from the 3RR according to the outcome of this vote, additional changes fall again under the 3RR. Please use descriptive edit summaries.
Persistent reverts against community consensus despite multiple warnings may be dealt with according to the rules in Wikipedia:Dealing with vandalism. In case of doubt, assume good faith and do not bite newcomers.

The detailed vote results and the vote itself can be found on Talk:Gdansk/Vote. This vote has ended; please do not vote anymore. Comments and discussions can be added to Talk:Gdansk/Vote/discussion anytime. This template {{Gdansk-Vote-Notice}} can be added on the talk page of affected articles if necessary.

Nationality

Falck was ( possibly !) born in Gdansk/Danzig, a city with a huge influx of Germans, especially at the "Upper class".
"Falck" is not what I would call a typical Polish name.
Poland at that time was a multi - national kingdom, so not everybody born as a subject of the Polish King is Polish.
he wrote German and his brothers name was "Hans Falck", his wife was born "Anna Kramer".
Nationality wasn´t a criteria in the 17th century as it is understood today, so we shouldn´t decide about it with our modern comprehension.(217.184.130.184 (talk) 10:23, 29 March 2008 (UTC))[reply]

RE:

Falck was ( possibly !) born in Gdansk/Danzig, a city with a huge influx of Germans, especially at the "Upper class".

So the only upper class in Poland were Germans?

"Falck" is not what I would call a typical Polish name.

It doesn't matter, what about others who has different name, e.g. Einstein is really not a typical German name?

Poland at that time was a multi - national kingdom, so not everybody born as a subject of the Polish King is Polish.

Do you have some support for that? He signed himself as "Jeremias Falck Polonus".

he wrote German and his brothers name was "Hans Falck", his wife was born "Anna Kramer".

German was an academical language in those days, nothing unusual. But remember also he signed as "Jeremias Falck Polonus". That means he claimed to be Polish. End of story. Like Jan Heweliusz who claimed to be part of Polish world(civis Orbis Poloniae).

Nationality wasn´t a criteria in the 17th century as it is understood today, so we shouldn´t decide about it with our modern comprehension.

Why don't you apply it for German persons in those days?

≈Tulkolahten≈^≈talk≈ 12:05, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The upper class of Gdansk/Danzig was (in majority) German, off course History of Gdańsk (Danzig)
What do you want to explain with Einstein? I didn´t get the point.
You don´t think, that the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was multi - national? Take a look at the section "languages of the commonwealth"
There´s a sentence from a letter he wrote inside the article, he´s writing about the pain in his arm, not a really scientific content.
As you might have recognized, I don´t claim him to be German, I just say, he shouldn´t be described as POLISH, just because he lived (his place of birth is unclear) in Gdansk/Danzig.
Finally, as always, Marie Curie was born in Russia as a subject of the Tsar, but she wasn´t Russian. Following your logic she was Russian (as Pilsudski and millions of others). —Preceding unsigned comment added by HerkusMonte (talk • contribs) 14:30, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maria Sklodowska was born in different time and under different situation, additionally she declared her full support for Polish indepedence and nationality. That is why she isn't classified as Russian.--Molobo (talk) 18:10, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sources

SOURCES ON THIS TOPIC PUBLISHED BEFORE 1945, ESPECIALLY IN GERMAN, ARE NOT RELIABLE - LARGELY INFLUENCED BY THE GERMAN KULTURKAMPF (GERMANIZATION OF THE POLISH POPULATION) BurgererSF (talk) 11:34, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, the German Empire at the time exhibited racist thinking that was anti-Polish and supported by highest echelons of power(mark Bismarck's words to "exterminate Poles as wolves"), its sources are highly dubious.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 11:41, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I can't see how these sources are per se more 'dubious' than sources written in the Polish language that were published under the totalitarian communist regime of the Polish People's Republic - sources, that you guys make so extensive use of. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 14:04, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There are no Polish language sources in the article, predominantly German and English published after 1945! BurgererSF (talk)

Indeed, although caution should be used when dealing with German sources, some of the Nazis managed to continue publishing after the war. In any case your edits seem ok, I also should note that we use countries of birth in biographies and not just provinces.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 16:48, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]