Talk:Jeffrey Hyland

Need more time, please.

Please give me some more time to work on this article, improve its content and make the necessary changes; or for editors who are willing to help me with the fixes, please feel free to do so. It will be very much appreciated. Thank you. Jxc5 (talk) 15:22, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

Lead sentences edited/Section: Early life and career added

Hi there Amory. Your message to me on August 20th.

"Okay so, taking a look at the lead... The most glaring thing to note is all the references. Take a look at a section on the link I gave you, WP:LEADCITE. What it boils down to is that the lead should never (okay, extremely rarely) have information that isn't repeated elsewhere in the body of the article. As such, one rarely needs to reference material in the lead because it will be elsewhere. Almost all of the stuff in the lead isn't repeated elsewhere, although the other content does refer to it. So, you'll need to move a lot of the material out of there. Biographical articles usually use some sort of "Early life" section or some such to get some of that stuff out of the way. Try moving a lot of that material to other sections - that will help flesh out the article, and reduce the load on the lead.

Things like "...and authority on Southern California real estate," as well as the "he's frequently quoted on..." bit you mention make it seem praising. Most of the details don't belong there, as I said, which will hopefully help as well. What would also help would be more sources that say more about him than a mention in someone else's interview on the NYT. Hope that helps for now, I'll check out the other one in a bit!~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 23:58, 20 August 2009 (UTC)"

Aside from editing the lead section (which I hope corresponded to what you suggested) and moving some sentences down to the "Early life and career" section, I also trimmed down the references list by just including the page under External links that says "Hyland's Profile, Haute Living" from which I've obtained most of my sources. Was that a right thing to do? If not, what do you suggest please? I haven't been able to edit the "Hilton and Hyland" section. I think I'll wait for your feedback on the current edits first then move on? Jxc5 (talk) 01:59, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay - I've been swamped with RL work and was helping out at a semi-backlog at WP:AFC. Anyway, those edits look great, they're definitely on the right track! A few quick comments to add to the above:

• Don't use the external link to the book website in the lead. It's completely promotional. External links in the text should only be to content we don't or can't host on-Wiki. Putting the link to the book in the external links is sufficient.
• Why don't you rename the first section "Personal life and career?" That way you can put details like who his wife is there rather than the lead.
• The phrase "His passion for real estate was significant..." is dangerously similar to hauteliving and sticks out in the article.

So yeah, keep chuggin' away! You want me to pop in again in a few days? ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 01:31, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback and suggestion. I got rid of the external link & made the edits. Can you help me identify the materials that need citations? Label those sentences for me please? Jxc5 (talk) 14:05, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood me - the external link in the LEAD of the article is the big problem. I removed it. I also removed some quotes from the references section and the dates associated with published books. Take a look at the edits I made to the page (specifically this and this) - can you see how that information might easily be construed as promotional? As for specific citations, there are a lot of places that need them. Rather than note them all, read no original research and ask yourself for each sentence if it is either a. information that is stated in a source or b. information you just happen to know. If it is a, then cite that source; if the answer is b, you need to find a source for it. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 19:38, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Problems and advice

That first footnote links to a scan on a corporate website, of what appears to be a copyright-violating scan of an article from Barron's. We can't link to copyvios. Instead, find out the proper date, issue, etc. of the appearance of that article (assuming it was an actual article, not an advertorial; but I read Barron's every week, and that doesn't look like an advertorial); and create a properly-formatted citation to that article. Citations do not have to have weblinks in order to be acceptable citations!

Speaking of formatting: look at WP:CITE and reformat all the article footnotes. They should read more like this,

Tirebiter, Porgy. "Eating with Your Entrenchment Tool." Antelope Freeway Enquirer, April 31, 1984; p. 3A.

The date or issue information and page number(s) should appear after the name of the publication. --Orange Mike | Talk 14:16, 4 November 2009 (UTC)

Executive Mgmt of Christie's Great Estates

Confusing. In the linked Great Estates article, the infobox lists Kay Coughlin as founder and current president of the firm. I presume she is actually the founder of the original company, not of the re-organized unit of Christie's. Moreover, in the Jeff Hyland article infobox, he is described as founder and president of CGE.

The CGE article points out that Christie's bought Coughlin's firm in 1995; the JH article, after stating that Hyland co-founded Hilton & Hyland in 1993, says nothing about his eventual business relationship with Christie's. How is he the "founder" of CGE? Intermediate details are missing. NinetyNineFennelSeeds (talk) 16:04, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

He is one of the founding members - changed it to that. Thanks. As for this article's infobox, it's not stated that he's a founder & president of CGE, but of Hilton and Hyland which happens to be one of it's first exclusive affiliates. Jxc5 (talk) 19:25, 13 November 2009 (UTC)