Talk:Jefferson

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Jefferson as a given name

Jefferson Davis, president of the Confederate States of America
Thomas Jefferson Rusk, senator from Texas
Jefferson Smith, the title character of Mr. Smith Goes to Washington

These don't belong on a nav page for use finding people likely to be looked up by simply "Jefferson". If you think there's a place where they will be encyclopedic, put them there.
--Jerzy•t 05:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Possible redirect?

Maybe "Jefferson" should lead directly to Thomas Jefferson? It has to be the most popular search for just plain "Jefferson". The Thomas Jefferson page could have a See also link to this disambiguation page... Any ideas? mathwhiz 29 03:14, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's why we have WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. A DAB is the right answer over a redirect. Toddst1 (talk) 23:28, 21 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Redirects are the right answer when there's a primary topic for a title but the topic has an even better title. See Obama, Patton, Reagan, Shakespeare, etc. -- JHunterJ (talk) 13:32, 22 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Mountain state?

Should there be an entry to Jefferson (Mountain state)? I think there should be. The other state articles point to both the other state articles. So I think this article should point to all three. --Joe (talk) 14:16, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Link piping

I've bypassed the piped link to Jefferson (president) at the top of the page. Piping and redirects are discouraged on pages like these (see MOS:DABPIPE). Redirect traffic statistics can be found at https://tools.wmflabs.org/redirectviews if desired. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 11:18, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sangdeboeuf, I think you're missing the point of that redirect. It is to track how many readers coming to this disambiguation page are using that specific link which is not otherwise used. There are some who hold that Jefferson should be a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to Thomas Jefferson, or whether the president should be given preferential placement on the page. Indeed, about half of visitors to this page go on to the president's article.This usages has been discussed at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Disambiguation pages/Archive 42#Listing a topic discriminatorily above others. older ≠ wiser 12:03, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I myself agree that Jefferson should redirect to Thomas Jefferson. In fact, I tried to move this page myself in order to create such a redirect, but couldn't for technical reasons (see my request at WP:RM/TR). If a discussion is needed, why not just use the data we have now to reach a decision on the primary topic? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 12:15, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 March 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 17:27, 11 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jefferson → Jefferson (disambiguation) – Thomas Jefferson seems like the clear WP:PTOPIC. Jefferson should redirect there per WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT. Similar situation to Obama, Reagan, Shakespeare, etc. – Sangdeboeuf (talk) 11:31, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:07, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Sangdeboeuf: But Thomas Jefferson died 192 years ago and many other people and many places have the name Jefferson. (I am British.) Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:11, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If this move is made, the move request will present these pages as possible subpages of Jefferson and Talk:Jefferson, which are not related to them:-
Jefferson/1st Avenue and Washington/Central Avenue stations and Talk:Jefferson/1st Avenue and Washington/Central Avenue stations :: a railroad station

Jefferson/USC station and Talk:Jefferson/USC station :: a railroad station

Jefferson/USC (LACMTA station), Jefferson/USC (Los Angeles Metro station), Jefferson/USC station (Los Angeles Metro), Talk:Jefferson/USC (Los Angeles Metro station) :: redirects to railroad station pages
- Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:30, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- And Muhammad died 1,385 years ago. Many notable people now have the same name. Cromwell has been dead almost 360 years. Ghandi, 70 years, etc., etc. Not sure what the argument is there. Not sure about the railroad station articles either. How is having them as subpages of this page any better? —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 18:24, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support, clear primary for the name. Jefferson, as a topic, is not American-centric, but directly touches many of the ever-expanding (and sometimes contracting) worldwide freedoms inspired by his and others work. Look at the French Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, which wouldn't have existed but for Thomas Jefferson and George Mason's influence and Jefferson's direct involvement. Jefferson is one of the giants of world history, and a name which will likely not fade from long-term significance and topic primary. Randy Kryn (talk) 17:49, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Wikipedia consensus has singled out five presidential surnames (Van Buren, Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan and Obama) as sufficiently specific to qualify for a direct link. The first five presidents — Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison and Monroe are dab pages, as are the later Jackson and Lincoln. Also, in the case of Adams, as well as those of Roosevelt and Bush, the reference is to two presidents. A particular consideration in the cases of Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Jackson and Lincoln is that those refer to so many other names, both given and surnames, and to so many place names, that dab pages seemed the best option. In a historical context, these names would refer to the presidents but, in most other contexts, the references would be too diffuse. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 23:07, 4 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Among the names you mention, Jefferson and Lincoln jump out for me as those which should redirect to the U.S. presidents. It's almost on the WP:ASTONISH level that Lincoln isn't directed to Abraham Lincoln, but that's for another RM. Randy Kryn (talk) 01:25, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- As Randy Kryn observed above, Jefferson is important not just as a president, but as a political philosopher. See his work on the U.S. Declaration of Independence and the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, two pivotal documents in Western history. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 08:08, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Leaning oppose; Jefferson is a very common surname and place name. bd2412 T 03:39, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
For me here in England, the first meaning of "Lincoln" is a place, Lincoln, England. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 05:59, 5 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose we should make allowances to non-American readers In ictu oculi (talk) 08:56, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In ictu oculi and BD2412, please look over the disamb list again, and the links to the given names and surnames. There don't seem to be any major non-American entries to confuse non-Americans. And Thomas Jefferson was a citizen of the world, his thoughts, deeds, and writings shifted the societal-freedom awareness of countries and people around the globe. 11:00, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Randy, honestly don't think that this Jefferson is much known outside US, certainly not automatic subject. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:52, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose When I think "Jefferson", I think things like Jefferson Airplane. I would certainly not type in Jefferson if I wanted to look for Thomas Jefferson, I would type the full name._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 13:18, 6 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- "What first comes to mind" is not a valid rationale. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 15:33, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Question Do we have view stats? Those could be helpful here.--Yaksar (let's chat) 01:01, 7 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- As Bkonrad pointed out, about half of visitors to this page follow the redirect at the top of the page to the article about Thomas Jefferson. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 15:33, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose – "seems like" is not an appropriate rationale for primarytopic grab. Dicklyon (talk) 05:29, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- How about usage in reliable sources then? Searching "Jefferson" in GBooks yields thousands of works about Thomas Jefferson – not Jefferson Airplane, George Jefferson, Jefferson County, etc. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 15:33, 8 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Livre 📕

Jefferson 1 et 2 92.132.131.84 (talk) 19:40, 4 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]