Talk:Jean-Michel Nicolier

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Jean-Michel Nicolier article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Biography: Military

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group (assessed as Low-importance).

France Low‑importance

	France portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Croatia Low‑importance

	Croatia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Croatia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Croatia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CroatiaWikipedia:WikiProject CroatiaTemplate:WikiProject CroatiaCroatia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: Biography / Balkan / European / Post-Cold War

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Military biography task force
	Balkan military history task force (c. 500–present)
	European military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Cúchullain ^t/c 13:53, 3 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jean-Michel Nicollier → Jean-Michel Nicolier – An anonymous editor changed the article to use one 'l' in the surname. The Croatian sources are rather messy on this matter, but the majority does seem to support that. It'd be nice to confirm it in an authoritative way. -- Joy [shallot] (talk) 08:20, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is a bunch of news sources supporting one or the other (even the same news outlets contradict themselves, for instance [1], [2]), but as far as I can tell, there are only two book sources mentioning Nicolier by name: Viro, p.178 in Croatian and Lambrichs, pp. 7, 275 in French, both using one "l". There's also this news report in French using name "Nicolier" and this ICTY transcript also using that form of the surname. It would be interesting to see what is used in the official citation (Narodne novine, presumably) of the decoration. The presidential website uses Nicollier, albeit it does indicate the text is taken over from the HINA.--Tomobe03 (talk) 15:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The plot thickens - two L's in the decoration decision. I guess they could have made a mistake, even if an embarrassing one. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 17:43, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The ICTY also has a contradicting "LL" here--Tomobe03 (talk) 19:50, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Right now it seems to me we have two documents with some official capacity (presumably checked for errors) - the NN citation and the ICTY indictment using "LL" and most sources using just one "L". Still the bulk of the sources are in Croatian therefore written by authors not necessarily familiar with French, or sourcing his surname from another such source. Still the two sources in French seem fairly relevant, but it appears that both Nicolier and Nicollier exist as French surnames. If no further compelling sources are brought forward, I wouldn't be quite convinced that the move from double to single "L" is justified. Which doesn't mean I will look no further for new sources :) --Tomobe03 (talk) 20:34, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to the above referenced ICTY indictment (Mrkšić et al), the ICTY uses "LL" in Milošević indictment and Šešelj indictment. Though I must admit they also named him "Jean Michael" - indicating likely circular sourcing of the name at the ICTY.--Tomobe03 (talk) 20:44, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There's one more book source (in Spanish) supporting the single "L" (Pereyra, p.121).--Tomobe03 (talk) 20:46, 21 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support Given the uncertainty, I thought I'd just turn to the tea leaves of Google. "Jean-Michel Nicolier" -wikipedia beats "Jean-Michel Nicollier" -wikipedia a bit more than 2:1, so that's good enough for me with such mixed evidence otherwise. --BDD (talk) 23:39, 2 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move.Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Sources

This article is mostly comprised of "info" from one or two Croatian-language newsmedia, like Večernji list. Also dead links. Isn't there any reliable English-language sourcing available? Quis separabit? 19:19, 5 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt there is, because this is a rather obscure and relatively recent topic. I don't see the reason for the global POV tag that you posted (the scary quotes are, frankly, useless), so I'm going to remove it, since you already removed some of the overly emotional phrasing. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 11:37, 21 August 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Nicollier, not Nicolier

Hello all,

My move was reverted to Nicolier with one l, that is definitely the *incorrect* spelling. I had a chat with the reverter, so I'm back here to the talk page.

The French official name, as stated in French sources, uses 2 L's. It was a rule in former standard serbocroatian language to translitterate the foreign names (even European latin), to have a letter-to-letter possible translation from the latin serbocroatian version (now croatian) to the cyrillic one (now serbian). See for instance, even today, how in the Serbian wikipedia French President Hollande is Fransoa Oland (in cyrillic and in latinica). This is the possible reason why the old croatian articles had one L in Nicolier and not two L's. I've added French sources to the French article and to the Occitan one, I created, too. Here they are:

So, I suppose I have to wait for some feedback. Regards, --— J. F. B. ^{(me´n parlar)} 21:40, 26 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Jfblanc: As I explained on my talk page here, the article was moved to this title after the above requested move discussion. If you think the title is wrong, consider starting a new move request following the procedure here.--Cúchullain ^t/c 14:54, 27 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Jean-Michel Nicolier. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.vfm.hr/vijesti/slavonija/1378
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120110133625/http://www.predsjednik.hr/17112016 to http://www.predsjednik.hr/17112016

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 09:58, 20 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]