Talk:Jay Munly

2020 updates (March-December)

5/6/20: Except for a few things here and there, I don't know if there's much else I can add to this page. This is my first major project. I like being thorough when doing things like this, but it looks like I went overboard. Plus, WP has strict guidelines for what sources to cite. A lot of my work was cut down, and with the general lack of info out there on Munly, I feel like it's back to square one. Looking over it, though, it is better than it was. - Xx rapunzel xx (talk) 06:22, 6 May 2020 (UTC)

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5/9/20: Xx rapunzel xx (talk) 02:53, 10 May 2020 (UTC): I would like to delete the template under 'Early Life' that was added recently, but I'm not sure if I should. I'm reluctant to remove it because these are technically good questions to go by, and who knows, maybe more information will be revealed in the future. As of right now, though, these questions cannot be answered - at least, not officially on WP:

• When and where was he born? Where was he raised? - I trust the anonymous user that said I was correct with his birth year of 1970, but I can't cite where that came from, and it's not listed anywhere else. I read somewhere that he spent his "formative years" in Denver, but what is that, exactly? As a teen? As a child? That's not specific at all.
• He's one of four children, which one, the oldest, second of four, third of four, or youngest? - He is not the oldest and he is not the youngest, but those are according to obituaries that I can't cite here. I'm not sure if he was born second or third and Munly doesn't seem like the type to just throw that information out there in an interview.
• Where he did attend high school? When did he move to Ohio? - Absolutely no idea. As a side note, none of the obituaries even mention Canada, so who really knows how long he and his family lived there. Canada sounds like a failed experiment to me.
• When did he learn music and did he perform as a teenager? - Again, absolutely no idea. He seemed to materialize from the ether onto the music scene in his 20's, and not much is known except for when he began learning music as a child.
• Also, please remove any obituaries that aren't coming from news sources. - Did that. If Munly ever reads this: next time, make it your priority to take out a full-page ad in the New York Times. (Hopefully there isn't a next time, though!!!)
• Remove trivia such as first concert attended unless that directly influenced him to go into music. - Did that.

5/11/20: I removed the template with the questions above. - Xx rapunzel xx (talk) 13:45, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

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5/12/20: Xx rapunzel xx (talk) 16:57, 12 May 2020 (UTC): Deleted other notes that had incorrect (?) templates; re-wrote them here:

• Under Writing > children's stories > Better sources needed - which I currently can't provide.
• Under Writing > plays > What plays? - I have no idea. I wish I knew.

This information, as well as the questions above, I believe were written by AngusWOOF.

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5/15/20: Xx rapunzel xx (talk) 03:15, 16 May 2020 (UTC): Maybe you can help me: I think I wrote that Munly de Dar He was an associated act. Truth is, I don't really know. It seems like it's considered a solo and team effort. I still don't know the real name of the album - is it self-titled? Do I need to need another section in "Side Projects"? Will you help me figure this out? This isn't really my page but it feels like it. I'm tired of seeing my name, lol.

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5/26/20: Xx rapunzel xx (talk) 04:23, 26 May 2020 (UTC): I had a thought. If munlymunly.com is not a personal website and only a fansite, then why is it included in other news/magazine articles as a source of information? I also still can't find any info on the awards he's supposedly won, so... IDK.

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7/2/20: I redacted my own 5/19/20 and 5/28/20 comments since they did not add to the discussion of the article... that is, if you can call this a discussion. - Rapunzel )}i{( 23:54, 2 July 2020 (UTC)

ETA: Removed my 5/16/20 comment as well - users could find information in the edit history if they're so inclined. - Rapunzel )}i{( 00:00, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

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10/22/20: I check this page periodically for any changes since I worked very hard on expanding it. I see that two significant edits of others were reverted. The first was... bizarre... the second (most recent) one has a combination of true information and information that is probably true but can't be verified in interviews or any other sources at this time. I'm intrigued by the claim that he was born in Denver after all. The thing is that Munly (or anyone else, for that matter) could make up a lot of things for interviews, and as long as it's stated in ideally more than one interview, it's treated as fact by Wikipedia. That's probably why they say that Wikipedia isn't a reliable source... but I like to think that that doesn't happen often, especially with more serious topics. - Rapunzel )}i{( 02:42, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

2021 updates

1/5/21: I finally felt like I could edit this and the other related pages with something substantial. The problem is: what do I do about the name? Munly was born as Jayson Thompson (middle name unknown) but apparently Munly J. Munly is his legal name, which I got from reading an article and from fans who know him well enough. I think I could use the interview as a source, but how would I cite it? Would the page name have to be altered?

Then there's the frustrating Wheelerfest situation - if only the band would upload the video they made for it. Right now, people will just have to take my word for what went on.

Lastly, there's this "Life on a Limb" book which I don't even know if it's the right title because "Mark" wrote the other book as "Ten Songs With No Words". The actual title could be be "Fife on a Lamb" for all I know.

If anyone else would like to contribute valuable information, please do. - Rapunzel )}i{( 03:01, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

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5/13/21: Replying to myself... Wheelerfest situation was rectified a while ago. I am still not sure what to do about the same. Xx rapunzel xx (talk) 07:26, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

Xx rapunzel xx, even if that's what he has on his driver's license, it isn't the common name. It needs to be whatever stage name is most consistent. The article can be renamed to Munly if that's more common than Jay Munly, but Munly Jay Munly is not the most common of the bunch. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 14:55, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

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7/22/21: It looks like there is at least one person who isn’t happy with the edits made on this site, and it seems to be causing this person (in my opinion) undue stress.

Most information that I added was taken from interviews with band members, and more personal information was taken from an obituary posted on a local news site. With the exception of the name and birthplace, which I can’t verify unless I hacked into government websites, I don’t believe any of the information is false, unless the band members intentionally deceived readers in an effort to keep themselves to themselves.

The odd thing about this recent vandalism is that, last year when I was writing all this, I thought I was contacted by this person and that I added (or copied and pasted) some information they wrote. Now, I’m second-guessing who wrote to me last year, and I can’t figure out what exactly prompted this sudden desire to remove information that is (still) publicly available to those who seek it.

Last month, I was blocked by 2 members on Instagram around the time that this initial vandalism occurred. I did write to them in order to address this (as uncomfortable and embarassing as it was for me), but didn’t get a response. Should they wish to respond in the future, they know where to find me. All this has left me feeling confused, and quite honestly, sad. I’m not sure what I’ve done wrong, except for attempting to set the record straight. Xx rapunzel xx (talk) 18:27, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Name revisited

Many of the sources in the article refer to him as "Jay Munly". Per WP:COMMONNAME, why should the legal name of "Munly Jay Munly" be the article title? What reliable source do we have for the legal name? —C.Fred (talk) 14:22, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

C.Fred, I renamed this back to Jay Munly, but a case could also be made to rename this to Munly. I'm not sure what's going on with the recent edit cuts though, since now the sourcing's a big mess. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 14:53, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

AngusWOOF and C.Fred, I just looked at all the revisions - wow! There’s no doubt in my mind that the subject of this page tried to set the record straight, but as per the rules, I don’t really know if there is sufficient secondary source evidence to change the name to Munly Jay Munly or Munly. Is there anything that I can do to help without making this an even bigger catastrophe? - Rapunzel )}i{( 22:55, 14 June 2021 (UTC) Xx rapunzel xx (talk) 22:58, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

@Xx rapunzel xx: Probably not, alas. It's going to come down to reliable sourcing. Even if his legal name is Munly Jay Munly, the title of the article should go with what he is commonly referred to as. —C.Fred (talk) 01:14, 15 June 2021 (UTC)

@Xx rapunzel xx: Jay Munly is clearly the most commonly used name. I think the article handles this just fine as is, and you're right, there doesn't appear to be sufficient mention in reliable sources to support a change to Munly Jay Munly. Stonkaments (talk) 10:18, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

Middle name

The article cited for his name says the following:

By definition, Boulder recording artist Jayson Munly Thompson, aka Munly, is a singer-songwriter: He writes and sings his own material, he plays guitar, and--most important--he does it all by himself. [1]

Should we edit the article to include his (apparent) middle name, Munly? —C.Fred (talk) 18:48, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Hello! At this point, I’m not sure what to do anymore, lol. There’s a correspondence somewhere on here from last year - quite possibly from Munly himself - that said that 'Munly' was a derivative made up from his mother’s maiden name. I don’t know if "Jayson Munly Thompson" was ever a legal name - if legality matters - but I believe Munly Jay Munly is his legal name now. When I first started fleshing this article more last year, I had a list of all the name variants in the infobox (7 in total?) which was then deleted and edited by AngusWOOF, who wrote the notes next to them now. Xx rapunzel xx (talk) 15:39, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

@Xx rapunzel xx: The issue that has to be worked around is WP:RS. We have a published source, Westword, that gives a name of Jayson Munly Thompson. We have insinuations from COI editors, but no published secondary source, for Munly Jay Munly.

Hypothetically: If a news source were to run a story that mention that Munly changed his name legally to Munly Jay Munly, then we would have something to rely on. At that point, the intro would be rewritten to start with that name. Since we couldn't prove that JMT was his birth name, that would get bumped to the aka section of the infobox or some other peripheral mention. (The name has standing because of the interview; he was known by it at some point.) —C.Fred (talk) 16:00, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

I think there’s an interview out there that says he showed the interviewer his driver’s license that said his name, although it’s not actually shown. I’ll have to find it. Xx rapunzel xx (talk) 04:37, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

@C.Fred: I found this article [2] which is the closest thing I could find to actual verification. Not sure it suffices, though. - Xx rapunzel xx (talk) 05:05, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

@Xx rapunzel xx: I have concerns about whether that site (or Zine, as it calls itself), is a reliable source. If there's good editorial review, then we can rely on the writer's claims about seeing Munly's passport. —C.Fred (talk) 18:22, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

From the official fb page for his band.

https://www.facebook.com/MunlyLupercalians/posts/pfbid0ranCBPBn4SYt7PoPNM2fK91fPQxsL8rxQr5j8BjqBKzG7KqnpH75nhVvWmQeXg49l

Addressing a few inquiries about Munly’s eye. Yes, he has been blind in his left eye since childhood. We agree it is not in Wikipedia—we have nothing to do with it. He does not think it is important. Both his eye and Wikipedia. They cannot even get his name correct. The name on his baptismal certificate, passport, social security: Munly Jay Munly. Here is a quote from a recent interview in DANAS.

…My Mother is the only one to ever use my middle name. As my Mother was passing she asked me to use it on an album as a bit of a secret, a sign between the two of us. I thought this would be our final secret that only the two of us shared. Then some Fanemies began feeling comfortable enough to use this name. So I have had to give up that final secret between my Mother and myself. I quiver every time a Fanemy with one too many drinks in them comes up after a show and without asking touches my arm and calls me Jay. Every time someone feels entitled to use my middle name it hews away at the last memories I have of my Mother. So as polite as I am able I have to tell another imbibing person the once secret that I thought I would only share with my Mother…and our secret is…soiled. My sister has a similar name as myself, we were saddled with different surnames than our Father—I also never had my Uncle’s name, which some journalist/internet site has also given me. ~Sin (talk) 01:14, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

IP COI editors

Based on this user talk message, the unregistered editor(s) who keep trying to change Munly's name have a conflict of interest. —C.Fred (talk) 12:36, 23 July 2021 (UTC)

Proposal: Go with common name only in intro, bury rest in note

Given the ongoing controversy and ambiguity regarding Munly's legal name, I'm proposing the following workaround:

Intro sentence

Jay Munly is an American singer, songwriter, musician, and author....

Notes

References

References

References

It's clunky, but given the ambiguity, it might not hurt here. —C.Fred (talk) 15:50, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

C.Fred, that still wouldn't explain why his father's last name is Thompson. See MOS:CHANGEDNAME and see Metta Sandiford-Artest who has undergone several legal name changes. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 17:32, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

See also 2007 article by Dave Herrera: [3] ; Gothic Country article 2014: "His real name is, however, Jayson Thompson" [4] Obituary for his dad shows he uses Jay Munly as a name [5] AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 17:23, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

If we're willing to rely on the Polytox source, then the intro should be "Munly Jay Munly (born Jayson Thompson) is an American singer..." —C.Fred (talk) 17:28, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

C.Fred, it's still kind of questionable, since we don't know when exactly he announced his legal name change, again compare with Metta Sandiford-Artest as a way to suggest introducing the name. But yes, you could redo the intro. Denver Post also noted his name is Munly Munly in a 2006 article, but didn't say anything about legal name. [6] It's not enough to override Jay Munly though as the common stage name. Note the obituary where he was listed as Jay Munly was September 2006, and the Polytox article was 2018. AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 18:12, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

Then you have articles like CBS Local that still use Jay Munly. [7] AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 18:15, 31 August 2021 (UTC)