Talk:Jan Grabowski/Archive 7

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Archive 7

Enemies of Grabowski with conflict of interest editing this page

I am acquainted with Dr. Grabowski, though distantly. I raise concern here that users "Volunteer Marek", "Nihil novi", and "Piotrus" editing his biography are doing so while being engaged in a feud with Dr. Grabowski. Dr. Grabowski, writing in Gazeta Wyborcza, has named these editors with respect to falsification of Polish history in English: https://wyborcza.pl/alehistoria/7,121681,25732654,wrzuc-brednie-na-wikipedie-polscy-nacjonalisci-wciskaja-kit.html

Stop socking User:Icewhiz. Volunteer Marek 18:23, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

• What I think should be changed: "In 2021 Grabowski and co-editor Barbara Engelking were found guilty of defamation by a court of law and ordered to apologize...". Found Guilty should be removed as Grabowski and Engelking were never guilty of anything as this was a civil suit. The international condemnation of this verdict should be added as well. Finally, the appelate court over ruled it today so the successful appeal is more significant than the finding of the lower court.
• Why it should be changed: sources
• References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): [1]

80.51.76.250 (talk) 13:47, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

References

 Not done: From the source: Despite finding them guilty of defamation in a book, the Warsaw court did not order them to pay damages. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:12, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

New opinion piece

This new opinion piece may be useful to document what Grabowski’s positions are: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/29/opinion/holocaust-poland-europe.html Jehochman ^Talk 00:32, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Number of supporters

Yes, I agree about only the best quality sources. For example, see the phrase in the end of the page: As On 19 June 2017, about 200 historians of Holocaust and modern European history... [refs]. Where this 200 number comes from? One of the sources says >100, another says >170. What exactly letter(s) are we talking about and what is the exact number? Having such discrepancies in the number is a red flag. My very best wishes (talk) 16:28, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

This section was for something else. TrangaBellam (talk) 16:40, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Where did you get 170, though? The AP feed says >180. About 200 is a very reasonable approximation. TrangaBellam (talk) 16:44, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

It appears that 181 is the number. TrangaBellam (talk) 16:49, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Was this letter published somewhere? If it was, we can provide a link and verify the number.My very best wishes (talk) 16:52, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Peruse this edit. TrangaBellam (talk) 17:25, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Great, that fixes it! There is another remaining issue in the same para. We are saying in WP voice: "the Polish League Against Defamation (PLPZ) published a statement signed by about 130 Polish scholars — none of them, historians of the Holocaust..." Is it a fact that none of them was a historian of Holocaust? If we had a similar source or a link to the letter on the other side of the controversy, perhaps a reader could judge himself who the signatories on the other side were. My very best wishes (talk) 18:30, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

That statement is sourced from Barbara Engelking, Jacek Leociak and Dariusz Libionka, who I presume, had done their homework. You are welcome to verify the accuracy from the list. TrangaBellam (talk) 19:07, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Great, but which RS say that none of them was a historian of Holocaust (I do not see it from the letter), and can we use this source for a statement of fact in WP voice? My very best wishes (talk) 19:37, 16 March 2023 (UTC)