Talk:Jaffna Central College

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Copyright problem removed

One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The material was copied from: http://jccobajaffna.com/. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. VernoWhitney (talk) 15:33, 14 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article was re-written under fair use by User:Kudpung, other wise at the same Wikipedia can't come out with a reference sourced articles meeting WP:RS. I need a valid explanation on this regard, otherwise I will take this issue for Rfc for a wider community consensus.Regards.Shankar2001 (talk) 01:46, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I did not rewrite this article. I copyedited it for grammar and style, removing peacock (promotional) terms and other non essential or unencyclopedic content per WP:WPSCH. This does not infer that I endorse or contest now, or that I endorsed or contested at any other time, any of the copyright use regarding the content that was in it or that may still be in it. --Kudpung (talk) 02:13, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I got the point. I will expand the article without copyright violation sooner or later. Regards.Shankar2001 (talk) 03:42, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

In this article Kudpung removed large chunks of off-topic text, but what remaind was still largely verbatim copied from elsewhere. In order to avoid original research you must take facts from reliable sources, this does not mean that you must (or can) take the creative language and structure of the prose from those reliable sources. VernoWhitney (talk) 12:52, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I got your point. I will expand the article according to Wikipedia guidelines. Regards.Shankar2001 (talk) 14:17, 15 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Affiliations

It would be best that non primary sources are added to verify affiliations to University of Calcutta and University of Madras. !University of Madra. Cossde (talk) 03:56, 18 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Under the Primary source: History and historiography, it is mentioned as below;

"In contexts such as historical writing, it is almost always advisable to use primary sources if possible, and that "if none are available, it is only with great caution that [the author] may proceed to make use of secondary sources."^[1] Many historians believe that primary sources have the most objective connection to the past, and that they "speak for themselves" in ways that cannot be captured through the filter of secondary sources.^[2]"

So, I don't find anything wrong using the primary source as the RS to indicate the affiliations to University of Calcutta and University of Madras.Sudar123 (talk) 18:15, 19 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above quote speaks for it self, use of primary source in this case the website of the school "speak for themselves" claiming affiliations. That is why secondary source required to verify this claim. Cossde (talk) 04:54, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Read properly what is mentioned there properly. If you troll around further I will take you for a ArbCom, consulting with other editors. You have become a terrible POV pusher and a Bully on Wikipedia.Sudar123 (talk) 06:29, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The meaning is quite clear primary source are note reliable as they "speak for themselves". Why wait, pls lets take it to ArbCom immediately, so we could sort this issue out as I have much the same to say about you! Cossde (talk) 07:41, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Read clearly what is below here Primary source: History and historiography;

"In contexts such as historical writing, it is almost always advisable to use primary sources if possible, and that "if none are available, it is only with great caution that [the author] may proceed to make use of secondary sources."^[1] Many historians believe that primary sources have the most objective connection to the past, and that they "speak for themselves" in ways that cannot be captured through the filter of secondary sources.^[3]"

The above doesn't support your claim, "The meaning is quite clear primary source are note reliable as they "speak for themselves"."Sudar123 (talk) 08:45, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is a wiki article what you should read is this WP:ABOUTSELF. Cossde (talk) 10:19, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WP:ABOUTSELF guidance is nothing to do with this article.Sudar123 (talk) 10:35, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I will take you very soon to ArbCom, trolls like you should be banned on Wikipedia.Sudar123 (talk) 08:45, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is that a threat ? Why not now ? Or are you trying to find supporters to back you up. Why can not you take it direct to ArbCom. Cossde (talk) 10:16, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am getting the support of those who have affected by your POV pushing before I go to ArbCom and put a permanent end to the mess.Sudar123 (talk) 10:29, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, so I gather you are gathering your posse to silence me ? Cossde (talk) 11:06, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am not gathering support among the ArbCom members, but from those who are affected by your continuous POV.Sudar123 (talk) 11:45, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So you are gathering your posse. Cossde (talk) 11:56, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Discussion closed.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 13:02, 20 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ ^a ^b Cipolla, Carlo M. (1992). Between Two Cultures:An Introduction to Economic History. W. W. Norton & Co. p. 27. ISBN 9780393308167. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help).
^ Sreedharan, E. (2004). A Textbook of Historiography, 500 B.C. to A.D. 2000. Orient Longman. p. 302. ISBN 8125026576. it is through the primary sources that the past indisputably imposes its reality on the historian. That this imposition is basic in any understanding of the past is clear from the rules that documents should not be altered, or that any material damaging to a historian's argument or purpose should not be left out or suppressed. These rules mean that the sources or the texts of the past have an integrity and that they do indeed 'speak for themselves', and that they are necessary constraints through which past reality imposes itself on the historian. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)
^ Sreedharan, E. (2004). A Textbook of Historiography, 500 B.C. to A.D. 2000. Orient Longman. p. 302. ISBN 8125026576. it is through the primary sources that the past indisputably imposes its reality on the historian. That this imposition is basic in any understanding of the past is clear from the rules that documents should not be altered, or that any material damaging to a historian's argument or purpose should not be left out or suppressed. These rules mean that the sources or the texts of the past have an integrity and that they do indeed 'speak for themselves', and that they are necessary constraints through which past reality imposes itself on the historian. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

Merger proposal

I propose that Jaffna Central College be merged into List of Jaffna Central College people. I think that the content in the List of Jaffna Central College people article can easily be explained in the context of Jaffna Central College, since its only six lines and the Jaffna Central College article is of a reasonable size that the merging of List of Jaffna Central College people will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. Furthermore at its current size List of Jaffna Central College people can easily be included as a sub section of Jaffna Central College and does not warrant a page of its own. Cossde (talk) 13:43, 9 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Support merge to main article until list is large enough to break away. The main article is easily large enough to accomodate the section. This will best serve visitors. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:37, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose merger of List of Jaffna Central College people into Jaffna Central College - The only relevant factor when deciding if this article should be merged or kept is whether it complies with Wikipedia policies. This article complies with the relevant policies, both general (e.g. WP:VERIFY, WP:NOR) and specific (e.g WP:NLIST, WP:LSC). Size shouldn't be a factor if the article complies with policies. There are some featured lists of alumni with fewer than 100 entries (the minimum suggested by Cossde) e.g. List of Benet Academy alumni (23 entries); List of presidents of Washington & Jefferson College (31 entries); List of Athabasca University people (47 entries). Whereas there are some alumni lists with more than 100 entries which don't comply with policies e.g. List of Royal College Colombo alumni which has hundreds of entries but most don't comply with WP:NLIST and WP:VERIFY - it would never become a featured list. Finally, merging the contents of this article back into the school article would violate WP:UNDUE because the alumni/people list would dominate the school article.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 15:27, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Obi2canibe, your argument on the content of the lists is impeccable. However, as you said if this content proves to give undue wight in the primary article, then it clearly violates section 1 of WP:NOTDIRECTORY as a list of topics not suitable for this primary article.Cossde (talk) 17:38, 19 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a directory. Many thousands of boys have attended Jaffna Central College. List of Jaffna Central College people only lists a tiny fraction of them, all with references to verify their notability. There isn't a single entry on List of Jaffna Central College people which is less notable than the entries on List of Royal College Colombo alumni, List of Ananda College alumni, List of Dharmaraja College alumni, List of Mahinda College alumni, List of Maliyadeva College alumni, List of Nalanda College Colombo alumni, List of St. Anthony's College, Kandy alumni, List of St Peter's College, Colombo alumni, List of St. Thomas' College alumni, List of Trinity College, Kandy alumni, all of which pass your magic minimum 100 entries requirement. Indeed it is these articles, not List of Jaffna Central College people, which are directories because of their large size and because they contain entries which aren't notable. List of Royal College Colombo alumni is in particular a directory because many of its entries appear under more than one heading, the essence of a directory.--obi2canibe^{talk contr} 11:02, 26 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This argument is meaning less. First "your magic minimum 100 entries requirement" is not mine, I'm only following a suggestion of another editor, this suggestion as since been accepted by others. Secondly, if there are persons that does not meet Wikipedia notability criteria you can request them to be removed from the said lists. Thirdly, Royal College Colombo alumni list is maintained per Wikipedia:ALUMNI. The Category:Alumni of the Royal College, Colombo alone has 368 articles, more than any other Sri Lankan alumni cat. Cossde (talk) 14:54, 1 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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[Cipolla-1] Cipolla, Carlo M. (1992). Between Two Cultures:An Introduction to Economic History. W. W. Norton & Co. p. 27. ISBN 9780393308167. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help).

[2] Sreedharan, E. (2004). A Textbook of Historiography, 500 B.C. to A.D. 2000. Orient Longman. p. 302. ISBN 8125026576. it is through the primary sources that the past indisputably imposes its reality on the historian. That this imposition is basic in any understanding of the past is clear from the rules that documents should not be altered, or that any material damaging to a historian's argument or purpose should not be left out or suppressed. These rules mean that the sources or the texts of the past have an integrity and that they do indeed 'speak for themselves', and that they are necessary constraints through which past reality imposes itself on the historian. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

[3] Sreedharan, E. (2004). A Textbook of Historiography, 500 B.C. to A.D. 2000. Orient Longman. p. 302. ISBN 8125026576. it is through the primary sources that the past indisputably imposes its reality on the historian. That this imposition is basic in any understanding of the past is clear from the rules that documents should not be altered, or that any material damaging to a historian's argument or purpose should not be left out or suppressed. These rules mean that the sources or the texts of the past have an integrity and that they do indeed 'speak for themselves', and that they are necessary constraints through which past reality imposes itself on the historian. {{cite book}}: Invalid |ref=harv (help)

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