Talk:Jacobsville Sandstone

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Assessment

Following a request at Wikipedia:WikiProject Michigan/Assessment, I'm assessing this as C-class. Some specific thoughts for improvement:

Several sources are of dubious reliability or unreliable. These include "GeoPress" which is a self-published blog on Blogspot/Blogger, "Hunts' Guide to Michigan's Upper Peninsula" which is a travel guide (even the best travel guides are generally held to be unreliable with regard to history, which is how this is being used), and the Keweenaw Convention and Visitors Bureau.
Consider expanding the "Extraction" section. Relevant issues that might be mentioned include the economic impact of quarries in the area, the economic impact of quarries closing, and if applicable, extraction techniques.
Consider breaking off part of the "Extraction" section and expanding it into a "Uses" section. Relevant aspects that might be mentioned include why it initially became popular as a building material, how widely-used or in-demand was it relative to other materials, whether it was particularly used in any type of building or in any areas, and if there was any reason that lighter-colored building materials became more popular around 1900.
According to our article, Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, the current hotel was built in 1931 and is the second to bear that name. I'm guessing that the use referred to here was in the first Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, which was demolished prior to 1930 (when construction of the Empire State Building began on the site), but this should be clarified.

In summary, with regard to the B-class criteria, I find this article to come up short in referencing and reasonable coverage, though probably close to passing in both regards. Thanks, cmadler (talk) 05:43, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with you that those sources are dubious in reliability. The website of the Keweenaw Convention and Visitors Bureau also seems to have recently changed and the page referenced disappeared.
The extraction section can definitely use more, including quarrying outside of Jacobsville, MI. The one book reference does talk about the history at length, and I will look hard to find material.
I would have to assume that it refers to the first Waldorf-Astoria Hotel, as quarrying terminated around 1900.

Thanks for opinions and suggestions. Chris857 (talk) 17:27, 12 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

On these points, I have:

Eliminated the unreliable sources and dependent material. All current sources are government, university, book or newspaper.
I have added the extraction techniques and economic impact of the closing of the quarries.
The reasons for its popularity and decline have been added.

I still want to see if I can find more details on exactly how popular it was, and where it was popular. Chris857 (talk) 22:34, 14 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A few quick thoughts on the improvements. I know enough about the Columbian Exposition to understand the connection to lighter-colored building materials, but it probably wouldn't hurt to elaborate on "The White City" a little more. Also, and I know you're just trying to work with the information you can find, it seems a little odd to tie the decline to 1893 (Columbian Exposition and economic panic) but then mention the output decline from 1901 to 1911. Is there any earlier data on output? If all of the quarries closed "by the early 1900s" (can you be more specific?), what was the source of stone for the construction of Baraga School, Kaye Hall, and the statue?

I think it's interesting that the Chicago fire may have started the boom, and the Chicago Worlds' Fair ended it, has anyone made this connection? Some elaboration on the connection to the Richardsonian Romanesque style might be helpful. Reading this, I wonder if there was a reason this stone was used in Richardsonian Romanesque construction, or if it just happened that the style and the material were popular at the same time. I know there are a lot of RR buildings in southeastern Michigan, particularly built by Spier and Rohns and George DeWitt Mason; does the use of this stone in that style have to do with regional availability? Finally, it might be worthwhile to incorporate a photo of a quarry, if available, in the "Extraction" section, and a photo of its use in construction in the "Uses" section. cmadler (talk) 13:33, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The issue with obtaining an image of a quarry is that most seem to be copyrighted. For example, the second external link http://digarch.lib.mtu.edu/showbib.aspx?bib_id=610940# is for MTU's archives, which specifically disallows digital copies. Chris857 (talk) 23:31, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

On the end of quarrying, the book either doesn't cover the end well, or it's elsewhere not in the preview. An unreliable source (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=4ea84a9b-2f5b-4d0d-8f8e-6ad84f1d286c) says 1903, a better source (http://www.chassell.info/histbydecades.htm) says that the quarry in Jacobsville lasted until 1914. Chris857 (talk) 23:57, 15 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Remember that, regardless of what might be claimed, if the photo was first published prior to 1923, it is in the public domain. Or, because the photographer (Adolf/Adolph Isler) died in 1912, if the photo was unpublished prior to 2003, it is in the public domain. There are a bunch of other possibilities that would also put it in public domain, depending on date of first publication. I'd guess that one of those situations applies, but verifying publication (or lack thereof) can be tricky. A starting place might be to ask the Michigan Tech library if they are aware of any instances of Isler's photos being published. Here's some additional information about the photographer: commons:File talk:TamarackMiners CopperCountryMI sepia.jpg. You might also ask for help/guidance at Commons:Village pump/Copyright. cmadler (talk) 12:56, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Possible sources

Just came across this source, which may or may not be useful. cmadler (talk) 13:54, 16 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Here is another I found that briefly mentions it, [1] - User:Chris857, August 30, 2011

Additional sources:

Chris857 (talk) 03:33, 31 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A few more possibilities:

Chris857 (talk) 19:41, 28 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Note

Just dropping a note that this blog copied the first lead paragraph w/o attribution. Lead unchanged since October, post made in November. Most others I've seen attribute, or are otherwise obvious mirrors. Chris857 (talk) 17:05, 25 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Possible source

Malone, David H.; Stein, Carol A.; Craddock, John P.; Kley, Jonas; Stein, Seth; Malone, John E. (August 2016). "Maximum depositional age of the Neoproterozoic Jacobsville Sandstone, Michigan: Implications for the evolution of the Midcontinent Rift". Geosphere. 12 (4): 1271–1282. doi:10.1130/GES01302.1. Chris857 (talk) 21:48, 30 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]