Talk:Jack Thompson (activist)/Archive 5

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Perhaps Violent games should only be banned in America?

As these things are played world wide, but it only seems you Americans go around trying to kill people for real :)

You Americans? That's a pretty broad statement. How can you assume everyone is American? I'm not, so don't apply that to me. Maluka 08:29, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Now that's just plain silly. Junk this, says I. As in delete. 82.80.1.104 06:12, 19 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

Hahaha... There's violence in every country, and still no conclusive evidence that video games are responsible here or elsewhere. In fact, studies show that violence is decreasing in America... it's just simulated violence that's increasing, but some people like to focus on that, rather than real-world problems :-p --Wikivader 19:46, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, come on!

[edit] Right'o. No need for that anymore now. Whoever wiped the shingding, naughty boy, I hope you break a tooth chewing on a rotten fruit. (FYI couple minutes ago someone wiped both the discussions and the article) 82.80.1.104 06:10, 19 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

Regarding the Neutrality Dispute of the article

Without even viewing the article, anyone can tell you, it cannot be 100% objective (not even 90% maybe?).
Why? Simply because of what, or more exactly who, is being discussed in it.
It cannot be more neutral than a discussion of Hitler can be.
Mind you, I'm not comparing JT to Hitler, if any, I don't think he even deserve a mention in history as Hitler does.
But, something which they both share in common - actions speak louder than words - is what setting the tone.
It is impossible to write anything that will appear superficial and objective regarding JT, simply because the moment one bring to text any of his actions and sayings, it is immediately apparent from the man's own words and doings that he's not quite right in the head and/or doing it for reasons of personal gain/ego satisfaction.
The article may be biased, to certain degree, and that is correctable.
However, to become obssessively neutral? Forget it, it just wont happen, simply because who JT is and what he does.
Discuss. 82.80.1.104 07:07, 19 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

I couldn't agree more. I won't compare him to Hitler either, but the man is off his rocker. I believe he gets off to negative publicity, afterall it's the gamers, the curs, who receive his wrath. I had some strange reactions when I read his name along with Harry Potter 6 and George W. Bush as vandal targets. He probably likes that. He puts on another face for the mainstream media. It's all falling apart for him, though, and he's no longer giving out his email, which he did for years. It's backfired. One of my many missions in life is to let parents and others who take his advice and believe his boasts, know what he's really like. Actually, I pity the fool. Maluka 08:31, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Excuse my cliche'd machoizem but, wow a feisty girl that think for herself with passion, I thought you were a myth. ;) (oh yeah, I'm totaly out of place and context, aren't I? yes, I went there, couldn't help myself, after all...Ori--->just a man at the end, remember? ^_^ I'll shutup now and await my impending doom punishment from the wiki mods =/) 82.80.1.104 15:17, 19 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

I don't think it's impossible to be completely objective, even about Hitler. "The Nazi party, led by Hitler killed six million Jews in the Holocaust" is an objective statement that makes no moral judgments over whether killing six million people was a good or bad thing, and lets the reader make that judgment. Obviously, killing six million people was a bad thing to 99.99% of people, but still, statements can be made factually accurate without being biased. I just made an edit to the page trying to avoid that bias. I think Jack Thompson is a nutcase who knows not what he speaks of -- but the article on him should not take that stance. "Thompson stated once, about the Midway title "NFL Blitz"'s name change to simply "Blitz", "The NFL wouldn't allow its name to be used, so that tells you something." (Ignore my crappy formatting for the moment.) Gabe of Penny Arcade responded by pointing out that Electronic Arts purchased an exclusive licensing agreement with the NFL, thus prohibiting Midway from using the NFL's name in its title." That's NPOV. That's what we're trying to get to. --BorgHunter (talk) 16:17, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

"Adolf Hitler, born in Germany in 1889, was an unsuccessful painter." This is a completely factual statement. POV shows through in what information is selected to be presented. Choosing to report that Thompson made that statement on CNN frankly makes him come off as a loony, or a moron, which is what the first post under this header was driving at. If we instead provided only factual reports (like say the accusations and outcomes) of a couple of his legal cases, he would come off rather differently. NPOV is pretty much impossible here.--131.252.241.248 16:43, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, what is included would be only what one is notable for. Thompson goes on TV all the time to push his agenda, so that's what he's noted for. And thus what the Wikipedia article focuses on. --BorgHunter (talk) 17:07, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't know if it's cool to post links, but Slashdot has picked up the Penny Arcade bit with the fax and emails. The comments are worth the read. People who have followed him over the years are cheering because he's finally getting his due. Sample comment (a short one) but concise: "This really reminds of of McCarthy. People eventually saw him for what he was, a fucking lunatic."

I put this here for those who are just editors and not that familiar with the real Jack Thompson. There's no way this can be unbiased.

http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/18/1516223&tid=123&tid=153&tid=10 Maluka 08:31, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I believe it is possible for an unbiased article. In fact, I think we are 95% there. I just not possible to make an article that those who support Jack Thompson would like. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 18:05, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

:: or something :::-esque : I mean = or : err I got lost. ^^

Anyway, here comes the chilling question, just who are those who support JT? I don't think even the KKK support him (he'll censor all their jew killing games! har har har har, yeah, I know, sorry, I just HAD to go there, it was too obvious).
Also, Brenda, I'll make the distinction again.
Article <--------> Discussion.
In my book, linking is cool. If the author wants, he can place them in the article too.
Why should anyone "touch you" for saying something in a discussion, unless they're the very thing we accuse JT of? (yeah, this IS a direct message to the "you know who you are") 82.80.1.104 18:54, 19 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

Bear in mind that this is a discussion about the article not about JT himself. Wikipedia is not a chatroom. :) --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 19:17, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Good point.

However, a cursory evaluation of the slashdot article indicate no reason not to mention it in discussion about the article.

Although it does not contribute, neither does it substract and offers no more than somewhat of a summary of events to date.

So, again, combine that with this being a discussion area, and there be little fault to mentioning it.

One can always merely archive this entire thing and start anew, as it should be in a short time from now when JT cease being center of attention and one can look back and review this entire ordeal. 82.80.1.104 21:34, 19 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

Actually, you know, this is getting rather long, now that I review it all, maybe it is time to archive and start over. ;)

You know, this is what I like about this, aside a few jabs from me and few subotages, we've had a nice talk going here.

Now, if this was a debate with JT he'll just go "blah b lah blah f* you f* you you're a brainless illiterate gamer I censor you and your mama!" Something to think about. ^_^ 82.80.1.104 21:47, 19 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

Like I said earlier on this discussion page, everything in the article (vandalism aside) is factual information. Whether or not it's biased just depends on which facts are presented, and how. So, if anyone thinks the article is biased, don't just go around removing things because you don't like them... add to it instead. I challenge you to find factual information that actually makes Jack Thompson look good. If you can do that, then we'll have it in the article. --Wikivader 19:58, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

I just thought I'd say... THANK YOU for removing the 'this is not neutral' tag. Oh, and thank you to everyone who helped clean up the article enough to reach the new status.
My vote is that it is not biased, and paints a very accurate picture thus far.
$0.02 68.2.152.88 20:23, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, here's a rather neutral and objective article saying "Jack is a rabid retard" without actually saying it. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/news.php?aid=12360 , what do you think? 82.80.1.104 05:57, 20 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

Irrelevant line

Thompson also misspelled the URL to Penny Arcade's website in his letter, mistaking pennyarcade.com - an unrelated website - for the actual URL, penny-arcade.com.

This act, though careless on Thomson's part, in not needed in his article, and provides no neutral benefit to the section. I am removing it.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.95.123.207 (talk • contribs) --JiFish(Talk/Contrib).

While we're on the subject of irrelevance, JT also misspelled Philadelphia on his website. 82.80.1.104 22:33, 19 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

Holy Christ Nuggets.....

Who would've thought that it'll come to this? Such a controverisal topic? Wow. Well, at least its fair to say that everyone hates Jack Thompson...... I HATE JACK THOMPSON SHIRTS FOR ALL! Keaton, 19:25, 10/19/05

• I just don't get it. How is it biased when most of what's said is true? Thompson does tend to use lowbrow tactics when dealing with political opponents and does tend to use meaningless threats toward and talk down to people, so why is it biased or unneutral to say those things? Geg 00:10, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Because it's better to simply quote him and have the viewer come to that conclusion on their own than lowering to his level and saying "your mama! p.s. you sux!".

Also, because even 10000 people who bandwagon the same thought may still be wrong and 1 person will be right.

Although, it would've been nice if there was a flashing message on top reading: "community-recognized Troll/Jackass, avoid" :) (2:40 AM and I post on wiki, hoora, now I only got 4-5 hours of sleep before work) 82.80.1.104 00:40, 20 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

"Anti-game activist Jack Thompson under investigation"

Anybody wanna update the article to reflect the events described here? I don't feel like getting involved but this seems worthy of posting... Nrbelex ^(talk) 01:06, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Added a small bit about it DemonWeb 03:27, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Game, Match, Set. Pwnt. ^_^ 82.80.1.104 05:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

"Thompson is a Christian"

Edited this to say "Thompson claims to be a Christian." Like many religions, "Christian" is a self-defining term - that is, those who are Christians generally decide what common traits define themselves as a group. Since it is demonstrable that many of those within the Christian faith would disagree that Thompson does indeed share their core values, by evidence of his behavior, it is more appropriate to say that he claims to be a member of that group, rather than state his membership as fact.

He does more than claim. He has stated publically he's on a mission from god. Sound familiar? I have to disagree with you on it being more appropriate to say he claims to be Christian. Either one is Christian or not and by saying he "claims" to be makes him sound like some sort of religious poser. Maluka 05:42, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

"He has stated publically he's on a mission from god." You're saying he's a part of The Blues Brothers? I guess he sort of looks like an older version of Aykroyd...--BorgHunter (talk) 12:22, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Why not have "Thompson identifies as a Christian" -- it removes both the factual wishy-washiness of an encyclopaedia declaring just what Thompson is, while removing the negative sounds of "claims to be". Professor Ninja 14:28, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 14:32, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Second that notion. 82.80.1.104 15:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

Duplicated Information

I just removed a large chunk of text because it is duplicated later in the article under the heading "A Modest Video Game Proposal". --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 11:58, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

If you'd read it all, you'd find he's gong after Fox and Rupert Murdoch which is NOT in "A Modest Video Game Proposal". Maluka 13:29, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

That information can be added to the "A Modest Video Game Proposal" section instead. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 13:33, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

That information has nothing to do with the game proposal. He's taking them on due to ads for video games aired during a hockey match. It wouldn't make any sense there. It's had a rewrite and title change. Man, this is tough! Maluka 13:59, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Sorry if any additional information got zapped while I was removing duplcated material from the "A Modest Video Game Proposal". Feel free to re-add any information of this type. --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 14:10, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I had another look that edit and I can see any information about hockey that I have removed. Are you perhaps thinking of a different edit? --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 14:47, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

/claps hand to head and manages a smile. I wasn't talking about the game proposal edit. It was never in there. It was never included anywhere except in the article I've been defending. I hope that clears it up. Btw, are you from NJ? Maluka 15:11, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

What's NJ? --JiFish(Talk/Contrib) 16:55, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Three things: The Islamic issue that's mentioned before, Janet Reno, and Thompson's "modest" proposal

• I know people have said that a direct rebuttal (from the Quran) of Thompson's views belongs in the Quran article, but given the fact that right above Thompson's statements on Islam, the Quran, Mohammed, and Osama bin Laden, there's a passage comparing the supposed veracity of Thompson's quote on the study to the actual study's findings, aren't we holding these two things to a double standard? Are we doing it solely to avoid a potential flame war, or what? I think an encyclopaedia, even a cross-referenced one, can make passing reference to its other articles.

Jabrwock 17:29, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I've put the Qur'an reference back in, but specifically stating that the comment is Thompson's opinion. He is entitled to his opinion, no matter how much people may disagree with him. It's not like the entry states that he's telling the truth, just that it's his *views*.

• Janet Reno: What happened to the paragraph wherein Thompson handed her a slip of paper with a survey-style checkbox informing her to pick her sexual orientation and informing her that if she did not choose, she would thereby be deemed a bi- or homosexual? Did this not, in fact, happen? If it did happen, why was it removed?
• There is an article out there that features an email from Thompson explicitly stating that his modest video game proposal was, in fact, not satire. Does anybody know where this is located? I've seen it, but it may, given the coverage this has received, take a while to find.

Professor Ninja 16:07, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Ive seen the article about the game proposal not being satire myself. Im not sure the exact link though, but it was in the comments on one of the sites that first reported that he wasnt going to pay, he replied and stated that PA was lying, and that he was going to infact pay, when the game was commercially made by a company, or something to that effect.

Edit: found something that may help, http://www.livejournal.com/users/gamepolitics/ just over halfway down the page. DemonWeb 16:20, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Here's a link from October 10 which has the entire letter. It wasn't satire.

http://gc.advancedmn.com/article.php?artid=5883 Maluka 16:42, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I may be wrong, but I think Professor Ninja was refering to a followup article, after the GTA:SA mod of his game was made, where he then said it wasnt satire, and blamed PA for lying about him not wanting to donate the $10,000. DemonWeb 17:27, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

It wasn't that one, but now that I think about it I do believe it was on gamepolitics. The actual email is from a second email (after he made the offer but before he claimed it was satire) wherein he confirmed to an emailer that he was, in fact, dead serious. Professor Ninja 17:30, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, thats what I was initially gonna refer to, just read you wrong. I dont remember exactly where it was, but I remember him posting it in the comments of a news site that reported it. He replied twice stating that he was series, and that he would do it if the game was made. Unsure about it being an email or anything personally.DemonWeb 18:44, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000103062744/#c509245 Radix 02:25, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Also, posted to a GamePolitics article concerning his Oct 18 2005 appearance on Anderson Cooper:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/gamepolitics/110501.html?thread=3311525#t3311525

By the way, Penny Arcade lied about my refusal to honor my charitable donation promise. As soon as the game I outlined is actually done by the "industry," as I indicated and released in 2006, and as soon as Paul Eibeler identifies to me the charity, I will gladly fork over the money. Penny Arcade got it wrong, as usual.

First he says it's satire, then he says it's real... what cruel diety decided to put this loon on the same planet as the rest of us? T ConX 06:42, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Closing Time?

Seems to me it's about that point where all that was needed to be said was said.
In short, JT and all this fuss has exhausted itself.
So, untill further excerment surface up, I suggest we clear this up and lock it down.
Moving on to the next subject of debate. 82.80.1.104 20:58, 20 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

Not quite yet XD more news http://www.gamespot.com/news/6136188.html? DemonWeb 21:45, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Closing it is what Jack Thompson would want are you Jack Thompson?

My jaw struck my chest so hard it felt like an angina attack when I read that. Then I realized he's never going to stop now that his short hairs have been yanked out. Thanks DemonKyoto for that. Maluka 03:33, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

I would say that someone should shoot him, but he'll cry that I incite for murder (hey, if you're an expert gunslinger, aim for the foot). So I'll say someone should punch him. (prefferably) Repeatedly.

Again, not because of his so called efforts against the games industry and their, as he call them, "murder simualtors" but because he's a down-right LYING retard. And I just can't stand low-life scum. 82.80.1.104 05:12, 21 October 2005 (UTC) Ori Klein

More information http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/action/bully/news.html?sid=6136318 DemonWeb 02:37, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Vital info missing!!!

Yes, the whole controvery is overwhelming and stuff, but I don't think so much as to miss the inexcusably missing info on this man's bio!!!

What city was he born at? When was he born?

Aren't these questions a BIOGRAPHY of someone DEMANDS being answered within? I really think so, how 'bout you??? Kreachure 22:29, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Good point. :) Jabrwock 22:46, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Fully Ramblomatic article

http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/ Here is another article about thompson. Granted, it doesn't amount to much more than a hillarious rant, but I think it might do as a cute little footnote in the "Responses" section. What do you think? Zainker 02:44, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

That was great. Thanks Maluka 04:33, 22 October 2005 (UTC)