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This recent Vice source has good depth and goes into anti-trans content that is more recent. An interesting comment is that what we often refer to as WP:FRINGE is now going mainstream 'As the line between the fringe and the mainstream blurs, conspiracy peddlers are influencing—and in turn being influenced by—the national panic targeting trans people." Jtbobwaysf (talk) 09:33, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This needs discussion. I raised the question of reliability of vice.com at the RSN but there's genuinely no consensus. The version we have as of today is totally unacceptable as it misrepresents the source. Can we agree (1) whether this comedian's videos are sufficiently relevant to include, and (2) how we deal with Merlan's negative viewpoint if some editors feel she is biased? Elemimele (talk) 07:42, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think anyone is questioning that Sears mocked trans people. His videos are self-evident of this. The questions seems to be whether this is relevant to a disinterested article about the subject and if Vice is good enough to include contentious material in a WP:BLP. The section is about his post-2020 comedy, and one could argue that mocking transgender people as part of his comedy is relevant information (would a reporter have written extensively about it if it wasn't?). But I can see an argument for not including, too. Pyrrho the Skipper (talk) 14:31, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think there's a reasonable case for including the fact he mocked trans people, but if we use Merlan's Vice.com piece to do it, we must quote her accurately. But there is a clear consensus to avoid Merlan's extremely negative language. Therefore the best option is not to include it at all unless someone can find others sharing Merlan's view. There is also an argument for not including this: that Sears has mocked so many different groups and lifestyles over recent years that mocking trans people doesn't stand out as particularly significant. Basically, it's just part of what he does. Elemimele (talk) 15:28, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
My point was that the trans mocking, if there is such a term, is now more mainstream. Might want to include that part as well. I am not opposed to inclusion of the trans mocking. The comedian mocks all kinds of people, so I dont any issue with it. I think mocking is in fact his career. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 00:46, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Im opposed to including this material. Pyrrho summed it up perfectly: The questions seems to be whether this is relevant to a disinterested article about the subject and if Vice is good enough to include contentious material in a WP:BLP. My opinion is no on both counts. I think the mere fact that someone somewhere criticized this guy is not relevant in and of itself. I think the fact that Vice is a pretty questionable source underscores that point. This is not the sort of criticism that is terribly relevant because if it were, it would likely appear in more than one source or a better source or elicit some response from this guy. People like this exist to gin up controversy, i dont think there is much value in listing out each time he provokes a response. Bonewah (talk) 19:04, 23 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
