Talk:JMM (Better Call Saul)

Television Low‑importance

	Television portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Television, a collaborative effort to develop and improve Wikipedia articles about television programs. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page where you can join the discussion. To improve this article, please refer to the style guidelines for the type of work.TelevisionWikipedia:WikiProject TelevisionTemplate:WikiProject Televisiontelevision articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Plot summary ending

@FishandChipper: Of course Jimmy means that as Saul Goodman he's too big for HHM. He's dressed as Saul Goodman throughout the episode. He answers the phone "Saul Goodman, speedy justice for you." The context when coupled with his rant at Howard is obvious.Billmckern (talk) 23:04, 20 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes but he doesn't actually specifically say that "as Saul Goodman...". Also the feud with Howard is much more between Jimmy and Howard than Saul and Howard (a bizarre as that is to say). FishandChipper 🐟🍟 07:18, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@FishandChipper: That's the whole point. As Jimmy, Jimmy considered himself somehow inferior and not worthy. He thought of Howard as a nemesis. But as Saul, he claims he's now too big for a petty feud with someone he believes to be beneath him.Billmckern (talk) 20:53, 21 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Fair but still that is your interpritation of the scene. While it's also my interpritation its not what is actually said in the scene. If we allowed interpritations to be strewn about all over then plot descriptions would be the nonsensical ramblings of hundreds of people. FishandChipper 🐟🍟 07:46, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@FishandChipper: "My" interpretation. ONLY mine...

"Howard, by the way, isn't there to follow-up but to remove the offer off the table. Before he gets that pleasure, however, Jimmy explodes not as himself, but as egomaniacal, unhinged and over-the-top Saul Goodman. "You can't conceive of what I'm capable of! I'm so far beyond you! I'm like a god in human clothing!" he bellows in Howard's shocked face. "Lightning bolts shoot from my fingertips!" The speech is shocking and ridiculous in its bluster, and it's also a massive forward leap away from where "Better Call Saul" starts out with Jimmy McGill and toward the final, complete transformation showrunners Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould have imagined for Albuquerque's commercially successful criminal lawyer."

"The incredibly talented pianist Brandon Ethridge played a rather fitting soundtrack to a scene from the sublime AMC series Better Call Saul where Saul Goodman brashly touts his incredible talents to nemesis Howard Hamlin while turning down his offer of a job."

"Howard again pesters Jimmy about the HHM job offer, but soon reveals that he knows about Jimmy's recent pranks, prompting an outburst from the newly-christened Saul Goodman. In an almighty rant, Jimmy unleashes on Howard about how he has eclipsed the need to work for HHM, delivering gems such as..."

"The final scene starts off when Howard asks Jimmy, once again, if he wants to work for HHM. Jimmy works himself into a rant, following Howard toward the exit, and eventually becoming completely unhinged. He says the job Howard offered was too small, and then says no one has seen what he’s capable of. Then he realizes everyone is staring at him and he tries to collect himself and walk back down the hallway. This episode has moved Jimmy much further down the path to becoming Saul Goodman."

Billmckern (talk) 20:48, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

All that is interpretation that should not belong in a plot summary. If Vince or Peter themselves came out and said that, as the creative people behind the show, that would be different, but third-parties are not in the position to take their interpretation as the true one. Masem (t) 21:18, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Masem: @FishandChipper: Yes. All that is interpretation. I'm rebutting the argument that it's only my interpretation. Other people clearly saw and heard what I did. And there's lots of interpretation in lots of plot summaries. That's the nature of summarizing plots -- or pretty much any other work. I could cite examples but I'm sure you'd just disregard. As always, you two and A Person in Georgia insist on getting the last word. Billmckern (talk) 22:37, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Interpretation that is not from the actual creators does not belong in a plot summary. Interpretation from third-party sources can be part of a reception or themes or other analysis-type discussion but should not be inserted as factual truth in a plot summary. That's why plot summaries cannot try to guess motives or other factors not clearly stated in the episode. Masem (t) 23:27, 22 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Nobody was saying that it was only your interpritation. Like I even said, I have the exact same interpritation. However the fact of the matter is that Jimmy just simply does not say that to Howard. It's the same argument as to whether or not Kim is subtly returning the finger gun gesture to Jimmy at the end of the series. I argued that she was and many people agreed, but since that was just our interpritation it was not suitable for a plot summary. FishandChipper 🐟🍟 05:34, 23 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]