This is an archive of past discussions about JD Vance. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
This is a really bad picture used on this page when introducing Vance's VP run. The Wikimedia Commons File says it's a screenshot from Voice of America — a badly taken one at that. There has to be a better looking one than this. Solitaire Wanderer (talk) 01:41, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
Donald Trump and JD Vance at the 2024 NYC 9 11 Remembrance Ceremony
As of today, a search of Wikimedia Commons for Vance only has one other joint picture with Trump. It would need to be cropped for use here, and would have Donald Jr. behind/between them. A somber scene at the recent 9/11 Remembrance, it may not be a best choice anyway. —ADavidB18:34, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
I cropped Trump and Vance from this picture (displayed to right) and used it to replace the one in the article. —ADavidB02:34, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
And... the replacement was promptly reverted by another editor who cited MOS:IMAGEREL as the reason. The reverter is apparently applying this guidance per section, while I consider it written with an article-wide scope. I've restored the image to the Senate Tenure section instead. —ADavidB02:45, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
MOS:SECTIONLOC would have likely even better to have cited. The 9/11 Remembrance Ceremony is unrelated to the VP campaign, and there’s no reason to deviate from the norm just because no higher-quality images of them together exist. Using this particular image could falsely imply a connection between 9/11 and the VP campaign, which would be misleading, not only for that but also for erasing key notable people there at a non-political event. We typically select images that directly relate to the section's content, not simply because no other options are available. In such cases, we usually omit images. However, the lack of photos of them together in this campaign might itself be noteworthy in talking about the campaign as a whole if the proper sources exist.
As outlined in MOS:IMAGEREL, Images must be significant and relevant in the topic's context, not primarily decorative and "not every article needs images, and too many can be distracting." Including this specific image isn’t necessary for this section and we would be better served by ensuring that we don't give this page any special treatment just because no other pictures of them together exist. Wozal (talk) 03:24, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
@Adavidb - Same issue here. "An image should generally be placed in the most relevant article section; if this is not possible, try not to place an image too early, i.e., far ahead of the text discussing what the image illustrates, if this could puzzle the reader."
Please consider talking this issue here instead of trying to find walkarounds. The picture's inclusion has been disputed. Let's talk about it without giving it any special treatment. Wikipedia:ONUS applies here Wozal (talk) 03:33, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
An image of Senator Vance with a president of his party is appropriate for his senate tenure section, and shouldn't puzzle readers. The image's second placement was in the Tenure section, though did extend into its committee assignments subsection (where there is plenty of blank space for it). I'll gladly move the image totally within the main tenure section, given your expressed concerns. While another editor requested replacement of another Trump/Vance image regarding their campaign, I don't see how that precludes placing such an image in a different relevant section. Image cropping is quite common and generally not considered special treatment, especially for public domain images. I know of no guidance stating all notable people at an event should always be imaged together. Please do not express concerns and characterize attempts to satisfy them as walkarounds. —ADavidB04:57, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
Just because space might exist in a section does not mean that space has to be filled with an image. The previously two quoted MOS sections discuss this in more detail.
The image being replaced was directly related to Vance's nomination as VP. An image with a former president at a nonpolitical event has nothing to do with the VP nomination has nothing to do with Vance's tenure. An insertion in the campaign section gives a false and misleading representation that the event was related to the campaign and that certain people did not attend. An image of Vance's congressional work would be a far better image to be placed there. An image of Vance (like the original photo) as the GOP's nominee for VP or giving a speech as part of the VP campaign (even without the former president) would make stronger selections.
I'm not sure where you think there are walkarounds regarding concerns. A long-standing image was replaced with a new image. The new image was deleted. It was then reintroduced in a different section which also was unrelated. The responsibility for achieving consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content. Images are considered content. An image's existence does not mean we have to automatically include it. If we do include it, its placement in the appropriate section has to be considered.
It is not a requirement that the VP nominee has to have an image with the Presidential nominee. Not including an image of them together does not make people question whether they are running mates or not. Wozal (talk) 16:16, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
I didn't say the space "had to be filled with an image", only that the image wasn't displacing text while it was there, which some would use as a reason against placement. The term "walkarounds" was yours above (03:33) in response to my edits after you expressed concerns via edit summary. We will continue to differ on whether the image is related to Vance's being a senator/candidate, and its appropriateness for this article. Happy editing —ADavidB20:26, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
I think good articles have differing opinions from time to time. Happy editing @Adavidb. (On an unrelated note; thank you for all the cleanup you do in articles!) Wozal (talk) 21:50, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
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