Talk:Jón

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Iceland

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Disambiguation

Oops, this is the link I meant in my edit summary: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Iceland#Icelandic_names_2. -- Cielomobile ^{talk / contribs} 06:23, 21 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is not a disambig or hndis page

The templates hndis and disambig are for use on Wikipedia disambiguation pages. Per WP:D, "disambiguations are paths leading to different topic pages that could have essentially the same term as their title". The natural title for Jón Gnarr is just that, and the natural title for Jón Kristjánsson is just that, so there is no conflict, and therefore no disambiguation is needed between them. A sensible reader looking for Jón Gnarr should type both first and last names in the search box and press the <Go> button; Icelandic custom has no bearing on this. A reader looking for onomastic information about Jón should enter just the single name and press the <Go> button, which will bring them to this encyclopedia article. If it were an actual disambig page (which is a namespace 0 page used only for navigation, containing no encyclopedic content), it would need to be cleaned up according to MoS:DP, and some readers might not like it after the encyclopedic content was removed to another page. Please allow the templates and categories to be corrected. I am not alone; there is a general consensus at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(disambiguation_pages). Chris the speller 01:13, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Icelandic custom has every bearing on this. In the United States or other English-speaking countries, one might simply type "Bush" if looking for an article on George W. Bush. In Iceland, if one was looking for an article on their president, Ólafur Ragnar Grímsson, one might type "Ólafur." It's much like referring to kings and Popes by their first name, except they do this with everyone. We have {{surname}} for surnames, so what is this template for, if not other human names? Someone actually recently posted at Template_talk:Hndis#Proposal_to_change_this_template, and I made a comment there. -- Cielomobile ^{talk / contribs} 05:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The "Bush" example is irrelevant; yes, a reader can find the US president by typing "Bush", and the president of Iceland by typing "Jón", but the Bush page (besides needing cleanup) does not use hndis, and would not even if it only listed people named "Bush", as it would then become a surname article. I think you're reading too much into that request by one Wikipedian, which is only to change the name of the template to personalnamedab. Jón Gnarr and Jón Kristjánsson are personal names, and they are human names. Jón, in each case, is just part of the personal name, and part of the human name, since they have different patronymics. Their personal names are different, their human names are different, and their article titles are different; no disambiguation is needed. There may be a different emphasis on use of the first name in Iceland, but that has no bearing on article naming in Wikipedia, and therefore no bearing on how navigation pages (disambiguation pages) are created, deleted or maintained. An encyclopedic article about the name (such as the Jón article) may list people who bear that name, and certainly may provide a way to choose among those people, but it is not disambiguation as defined by WP:D, so please either go to that talk page and build a consensus to redefine what is meant by disambiguation, or allow the categories in this article to be corrected. Chris the speller 16:56, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Then what is {{hndis}} for? It seems its existence has no purpose, as there are basically two types of human names: given names and surnames. -- Cielomobile ^{talk / contribs} 23:27, 22 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It is for the combination of first name and last name that would be the natural title for a bio article where there is more than one candidate, such as George Bush. It could be used for a one-word name where more than one person has just that one name, but good examples of that are rare. Chris the speller 05:44, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alright. There should probably be a template like {{given name}} for articles like this, then. -- Cielomobile ^{talk / contribs} 21:02, 23 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, we are just about due for it, perhaps something like {{surname}} but with appropriate changes to the wording. If we have a template for John Smith (hndis) and for Smith (surname), why not a template for John? The only thing that may stand in the way is that given name articles don't get as much respect as surname articles, at least outside Iceland. The other question is where to discuss it, maybe starting at the Village Pump? Chris the speller 04:20, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, that would be a good idea. I don't think it should be a problem at all; I'll bring it up at the VP. -- Cielomobile ^{talk / contribs} 04:31, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Posted here. -- Cielomobile ^{talk / contribs} 04:49, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]