Talk:Izium/Archive 1

Archive 1

Spelling

According to GNS http://earth-info.nga.mil/gns/html/index.html which is official repository of standard spellings of all foreign place names, this article should be renamed to Izyum (which is the correct spelling). Here is direct link to GNS search results: [1]

Apparently link was changed, but it is still Izyum: [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.159.232.194 (talk) 14:42, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

I absolutely second this change. There are several poor translations/transliterations of Ukrainian places that lead to poor pronunciation by English speakers. "Izium" will more likely lead English speakers to say 'izee-um' instead of something closer to the correct 'eez-yume'. SSEdwards (talk) 05:29, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

That is an American site. Is there an equivalent British site, and does it agree? Also, is there an official Ukraine site that gives Latin spellings of place-names in the country? Finally, does any-one know why Wikipedia (English) has the current spelling?

FWIW:

Wikipedia spellings:

Ukrainian: Ізюм

Russian: Изюм

German: Isjum

French: Izioum

Kdammers (talk) 17:14, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

I can’t get the official Geonames Server[3] to work, but its database data seems to be used by geonames.org. It looks like the spelling there was changed to Izium.[4] The “History” tab has an entry that states:

• Time: 2020-10-14 11:33:30.205
• User: nga
• Comment: name:Izyum>Izium

This makes sense, as according to the official romanization method, the name is spelled Izium (see WP:UKR). Both the US BGN[5] and British PCGN[6] use this method now. Izium is the correct spelling according to these standards and our guidelines.  —Michael Z. 17:10, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

What the name means

The word means "raisin" and I would like to see an explanation of why the city has that name, if anyone knows. J S Ayer (talk) 16:56, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

 Added in! @J S Ayer It's a year later, but I managed to dig up enough obscure etymological books and encyclopedias covering the city's history to add in an explanation, if you're still curious. HappyWith (talk) 22:09, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Of course I am still curious! J S Ayer (talk) 17:32, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

Control of Izyum

The Ukrainian army is advancing towards Izyum, and while it may fall in time, at present it can only be definitively stated that control of the city is contested. Culloty82 (talk) 08:36, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Not at all. Ukrainian sources are using this 1 old photo to support their claims that they advanced in Kapitolovka and Oskil near Izium as seen for example on this map 2, but in fact that photo is of much older date. BlackFlanker (talk) 09:17, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 18 September 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus; not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Extraordinary Writ (talk) 07:07, 5 October 2022 (UTC)

---

• Izium → Izyum
• Izium Raion → Izyum Raion

– Google Ngrams shows that "Izyum" is much more common than "Izium" (see here), which means that this should be the title by WP:COMMONNAME. Big media like Euronews, Al Jazeera, The New York Times, The Washington Post, Financial Times, The Economist, The Wall Street Journal, The Daily Telegraph, BBC, The Globe and Mail e Kyiv Post, plus Institute for the Study of War, also use Izyum instead of Izium. Finally, it is worth noting that Izyum is the correct transliteration of Ukrainian and that the two sources cited in the introduction to the article use the term Izyum. Mawer10 (talk) 03:22, 18 September 2022 (UTC) — Relisted. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^put'r there 03:54, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

There is no single correct transliteration (actually, Romanization) of Ukrainian, and we are using WP:UKR, which gives Izium. On the other hand, the Romamizaton of the Russian name is Izyum. Ymblanter (talk) 07:32, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

• Support per BBC In ictu oculi (talk) 16:12, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
• I think I will oppose for the time being. Whereas Izyum has been indeed recently more common usage, this is a result of chaotic situation when the media just did not know how to call the city. I am sure when Ukrainian internet warriors figure out that the name corresponds to the Russian Romanization they will push the government to launch online campaign #IZIUMNOTIZYUM, and they will come here en masse and make our lifes miserable, like it already happened on many occasions. It is safer to wait and see whether the spelling is actually sustainable.--Ymblanter (talk) 20:01, 19 September 2022 (UTC)

  @Ymblanter, you are creating a toxic environment by calling out Ukrainians as harmful. Please stick to building the encyclopedia and working with the other volunteers, delete your comment, and stop doing this. —Michael Z. 01:52, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

  People who team up to break our policies are harmful, not me. Ymblanter (talk) 05:26, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

• Oppose  Izium is the spelling according to WP:UKR. Yes, both of these spellings are systemic romanizations of both Ukrainian and Russian, but this is the one used by Wikipedia, international, and official standards. It is also the spelling used by important references and standards recommended by WP:WIAN: Britannica (as alternate name, because it used to use one of the superseded British romanization systems), US BGN,[7] UK PCGN, the United Nations, and the National Geographic Society.[8] The city is too small or obscure to be mentioned in English dictionaries or Library of Congress Subject Headings. Contrary to the nomination statement, the spelling Izium is used by Euronews,[9] Al Jazeera,[10] the New York Times,[11] the Washington Post,[12] Financial Times,[13] the Economist,[14] the Wall Street Journal,[15] the Telegraph (Wikipedia won’t let me post telegraph.co dot uk /search.html), BBC,[16] the Globe and Mail,[17] and Kyiv Post.[18] Of sources listed, only ISW seems to use Izyum consistently. Izium is also used by the Kyiv Independent,[19] and the widely distributed Associated Press (example). —Michael Z. 20:49, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

  The spelling Izium is recommended by the Guardian and Observer style guide alongside other Ukrainian-derived spellings,[20] and Ukrainian romanizations (like Izium) are recommended by the ABC (Australia) style guide.[21] —Michael Z. 21:00, 25 September 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.