Talk:Ivan Kristoff

Untitled

I'm going to flag this page for speedy deletion under the premise that it is a vanity page, is not noteworthy, and is written in an unencyclopedic broken English.--Evilbred (talk) 16:42, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Riggaccess (talk) 19:15, 4 May 2010 (UTC)I agree, please delete. This is definitely a vanity page, with no apparent value or noteworthy component.

Broken, unencyclopedic English is not a reason to speedy delete. Notability? I have to agree. Doesn't meet the criteria. Let me dig a little just in case. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:11, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, with Google, beyond the list of blogs mentioning him, I do see a few articles, but not enough to call it significant coverage, and the sources are not exactly the New York Times. I suggest that User:Rescuenews do his/her best to find as many independent, reliable, reputable sources and add them as in-line citations. As it stands now, citing his own spidercopter and verticalrescue websites plus a youtube video are just not independent or enough. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:45, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Rescuenews (talk) 21:17, 4 May 2010 (UTC) Ivan Kristoff has earned his notability in Canada and his native country Bulgaria for his way of saving people and trying to make safer the constuction highrise industy and rescue operations for rope access workers. Unfortunately, most of the articles in English are not kept in digital format, because he has left Canada more then five years ago.

Nowadays he is mostly covered in the Bulgarian media, so we were thinking not to enclose them in the English version of Wikipedia. For example, we enclose an interview with the former Mayor of the capital Sofia and now Prime Minister of Bulgaria Gen. Boiko Borisov - [1]

We will include reliable sources as the most recent from the article wiht Ivan Kristoff and Silvio Berluskony [2] + Bulgarian National TV: [3]

TRUD Newspaper: [4] Standard Newspaper: [5]

Just because this is English Wikipedia, it doesn't mean the subject must be well-known in English-speaking countries. If he's a household name in Bulgaria, fine. Add inline Bulgarian references from notable sources. Make the reference look like this:

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:33, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

This still looks very much like a vanity page. There does seem to be some support of notability in native Bulgaria. However there is absolutely no documentation that he has any real recognition in Canada. There is no reference support of any Canadian claim, infact, the only reference at all is the subjects own website, and it looks more like he had a small merchant stall at an event, not that he was being honored at it. I'd reconsider speedly deletion if the claims of Canadian noteability were either removed or supported. He is not listed under any Orders, decorations, and medals of Canada or under anything from the Toronto Police. His description of charitable fundraising sounds like weasel words for something that any regular Canadian who participates in any fundraising event could claim. If there is any hope for this article, it should come from a indepth edit for spelling and grammar, and removing a large amount of non-information. I'm sure anyone could make their own article listing all the charities they've supported during their lifetime. If substantial changes aren't made, this will continue to be a vanity page.--Evilbred (talk) 00:49, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

I removed a number of POV comments (self-made spiderman) ect. and some non-noteable points (participating in a ride for charity isn't noteable unless you are something akin to a founding member). I removed some duplicate information and reworked some of the english. This is definately looking to be a more reasonable page.--131.137.245.208 (talk) 23:40, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

References

World Record Attempt

I dont't see anything as a reference for a guinness world record, there's a piece talking about an attempt to happen, but nothing about whither it did happen, or what the result is. Please provide a reference for what occured, and how it is, in fact, a world record. By this I mean, not something that just says he climbed a rope from a helocopter, I've done that, but it wasn't a world record. Remove the term "Guinness" unless you can provide a reference from Guinness themselves indicating their recognition of this event. I'll give this a couple of days and check back.--Evilbred (talk) 11:40, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

A few other things

• Please don't remove the speedy delete tag. It must be kept there until the matter is resolved.

• Don't worry about the article getting deleted. Nobody will delete it until the matter is resolved. Don't let the big red tag make you panic.

• Get rid of the inline references to his own websites. Keep them only in the External links section.

• It sounds like this person may be very well known in Bulgaria, and well covered by the media there, which would make him notable. Add the best references you can find from the best sources. No blogs, no youtube. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 21:43, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Rescuenews (talk) 22:39, 4 May 2010 (UTC) Thank you, I have added some media references from diferent newspapers and will remove the internal links and bring them to External links. Sorry for the removed speedy delete tag, I assumed that this is a sign that after corections have been made, it is up for a new review. I am learning as we speak.

Better. The article will probably be okay. It would be a good idea to format the new references like this: and put them beside the text that it refers to and not just all at the bottom. Edit another article on Wikipedia to see how it's done.

Also, you should create a first sentence stating who he is: Ivan Kristoff is a rope and climbing specialist. He....

Also, you might want to email him for a photograph for the article.

Best,

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:58, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Anna, I was wandering how to upload a photo like this [6], since it is from his own page arhives. Do I need to ask him for a permition or waving the rights for this?

I will be able to respond and more corrections tomorrow, because in Sofia it is 03:15 am.Rescuenews (talk) 00:15, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

That photo will be copyrighted. You need his permission. Best is to write to him and ask that he add an image himself here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Upload If he doesn't know how, then he can email me and I will add it. Make sure he understands that the image will become public domain.

Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:27, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

• Please stop removing the speedy deletion tag - the admin will look at everything, and if you show that the subject is notable, the article will be kept. Repeatedly removing the tag can result in you being blocked from editing - and if that happens before you get the article fixed, it will end up being deleted. Thanks. GregJackP (talk) 00:31, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

GregJack: You were accidentally removing content while restoring the tags. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 00:35, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

• Sorry, not my intent. GregJackP (talk) 00:42, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Rescuenews (talk) 00:41, 5 May 2010 (UTC) My appology, that was my mistake, now I know. I can't figure out where to explain in the Edit summary of the article my changes. Besically for i gave references to other newspapers and visuals of the events.

Rescuenews (talk) 07:33, 5 May 2010 (UTC) I think, that the added references demonstrate how notable the person Ivan Kristoff is. That is why he was chosen as one of the "EVERYDAY HEROES, As a tribute to men and women who risk their lives each day in aid of others..." [7]

I noticed some intentional out of context text from the Article "SPIDERMAN ...on a wall near you." by The Toronto Sun, one of the biggest Canadian Newspapers. It will take us a lot of time to quote all the praises from the media, to show how notable Ivan is.

Also, I did make some addition to: 07:47, 5 May 2010 (UTC) I think it is fair to revise the title

References

Failure to join the police force due to his poor English skills and a community recognition as one of the Toronto's hero

because it is out of context:

When he arrived in Canada Ivan Kristoff attempted to join the Toronto Police force but was rejected due to his poor English skills.Toronto Sun it does not finished the sentence "unlike the five other languages he speaks." """It is, referred to his arrival in Canada, before becoming a landed emigrant.The following sentence proves why Ivan is notable: And now, having finally become landed immigrant, this Jack of All Heights is on a government committee examine the health and safety regulations surrounding the window cleaning industry.

Five years later, Ivan along with a Police officer is chosen as one of the "EVERYDAY HEROES, As a tribute to men and women who risk their lives each day in aid of others..." [8]

I have removed the passage

You can't remove things because it's not positive. If you create an article, you open up the topic for all information, be it negative or positive. Either show references disputing this as fact, or leave it in. You can't remove information that is fact just because it doesn't agree with your point of view. I've put it back in, either extrapolate on it with relevant reference or leave it alone.--Evilbred (talk) 16:56, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

This is not the issue - positive or negative. It is the fact that it is manipulated intentionally to be out of context from the article, "Spiderman...on a wall near you". The meaning in the original article, demonstrates how an immigrant, who does not speak the local language upon his arrival, makes such an impact and contributions to the society. Further, the reference to the "Toronto Sun" is minimized to the point that it is not readable, and therefore - not a reliable source. The legal term for this is Misuse of Interpretation and in the forensic field it is called Manipulation of Evidence. The passage was removed for the above mentioned reasons. In that way, it is not encyclopedic. It is well placed now, and the matter is solved.Rescuenews (talk) 07:05, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Convictions of Trespass discharged

During a rappeling from a Don River (Ontario) railway bridge, Ivan Kristoff was fined $50 for tresspassing.Toronto Sun

The true quote from the Toronto Sun is "He once roped himself to a Don Valey railway bridge to practise his art and was nabbed by a rail way cop. It cost the intrepid spiderman a $50 trespass ticket' It has a different meaning, does not it?

I remember from one of his TV interviews that the fine was dismissed by the Ontario Court.

Dragmaniac (talk) 08:26, 5 May 2010 (UTC) Dear Sir or Madam, I see that Rescuenews have provided a lot of references regarding Ivan's notability. If this is not enough and they are further disputes. I suggest to delete the article until I make the additional research. There is a lot of recognition for this man's achievements and it take some time to do it. Thanx

Same as above, just because it was discharged doesn't mean it didn't happen. Positive and negative information goes here, it's not supposed to be a friendly human interest piece. Show references that it didn't happen or leave the information alone. --Evilbred (talk) 16:58, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

More various matters

Okay. I formatted and copy edited. If MSN-02_Zeong is notable, then by golly, this guy should be. A zillion refs and he even hung upside down from a helicopter.

Please add the four ~ ~ ~ ~ for your signature and the END of the post, not the beginning.

The article could use an image and some more copy editing. Good luck. I hope the admins see it as fit for inclusion as an article. My work is done here. And now.....wait....do I hear somebody in distress on the other side of Wikipedia??? I'm off.....whoooooosh! Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:47, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Whoooooooooooosh. (quick return) Thanks Nancy for your copy edits and removing the speedy tag. Congratulations Rescuenews. An article is born!! I'm off again. Whoooooooosh. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 12:28, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Anna, I just came back, and you brought tears on my face. Literally. On a personal note, Ivan, as we call him Spiderman, saved my life. I see the changes he did in Bulgaria, when he demonstrated that volunteers can do serious rescue work, and as a participant in some Rescue conferences, he changed the by-laws and helped the volunteer rescue community. Now I am excited to help Wikipedia, more than ever, and one day become a good editor. People like you, who take their time and will, that make the changes for better on our planet.I will take a serious look at your guidelines of Wikipedia, and ad suficient photos. Thanks again for your work and assistance. Rescuenews (talk) 13:53, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

You are most welcome. I am always happy to help. You can write to me on my talk page if you have any questions. Happy editing. Whooooooosh! Anna Frodesiak (talk) 14:05, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

will enclose some Citations from technical articles and recorder news reports from Bulgarian TV and a letter of referene from th University of Toronto. Unfortunately we keep some of these materials on Youtube and digital arhives. I did requested and suggested to some government agencies to start arhiving some of the innovated work, conducted with Kristoff, on their website with more details of the projects.Dragmaniac (talk) 08:07, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

And thank you very much to you contributions to make this article better. Your time and inputs are highly appreciated —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dragmaniac (talk • contribs) 08:10, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

This is still a vanity page. An unimportant guy and some of his few (!) fans bragging around. Best part:" Leading Fortune 500 companies..." Speedy deletion! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.187.253.25 (talk) 15:19, 6 September 2010 (UTC)