Talk:Iszac Henig

Included deadname?

Hi GRuban, and thanks for creating the article. I'm seeing plenty of coverage of Henig under his deadname, but at a glance it looks like local sports news coverage, all from when Henig was a minor. I don't think we'd have determined that Henig was notable pre-transition. You're obviously far more familiar with the sources than I am. Do you think the criterion in MOS:DEADNAME is met here? Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:01, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Izzi is not his deadname, it's a gender-agnostic nickname. He specifically asked me to avoid his birth name (which also shows up in a few early articles), but was all right with Izzi. You will notice he used Izzi to sign the New York Times article he wrote about his coming out! --GRuban (talk) 18:11, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Got it. Thanks! Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 18:15, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

I made it more clear in the text. --GRuban (talk) 18:52, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 13:17, 4 February 2023 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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Iszac Henig, Lia Thomas in 2022

• ... that transgender man Iszac Henig alternated wins and losses against transgender woman Lia Thomas (both pictured) on the way to the 2022 NCAA Division I Women's Swimming Championship? Source: https://www.outsports.com/2022/12/23/23514654/lia-thomas-iszac-henig-penn-yale-ivy-ncaa-trans-athletes-award "They became linked at a twin-dual meet between their schools and Princeton in January at Penn. They met head-to-head in the 100-yard freestyle. Henig won. Thomas was sixth. ... [A]t the Ivy League championship meet... [t]he 100-yard freestyle final came down to these two unlikely newsmakers in a rematch of their tilt at Penn. ...This time, Thomas got the better of the engagement in a close race... they finished one-two.... A month later both were in Atlanta for the NCAA Division I championships and each made their mark. Henig earned All-America honors for a fifth-place effort in the 100 freestyle,...Thomas put her name in the record book for all time in the 500-yard freestyle."
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Murder of Vivianne Ruiz (Jane Doe)
  • Comment: Perhaps link transgender man and transgender woman in the hook, or would that be too much blue text?

Moved to mainspace by GRuban (talk). Self-nominated at 19:52, 13 January 2023 (UTC).

• General:
  • New: Moved to mainspace a day before the nomination.
  • Long enough: Well past 1500 characters
  • Within policy: Well-cited. Copyvio detector came back negative. Prose is neutral. I'm not going to hold up the nomination over this, but some regard the terminology "female-to-male" and "male-to-female" as outdated: what terms do Henig and Thomas use to describe themselves?
• Hook:
  • Format: Short enough. I'd rephrase "alternated wins and losses". Linking transgender man and transgender woman where they are in ALT0 would create a MOS:SEAOFBLUE, but maybe something like this would work:
    • ALT1: ... that on the way to the 2022 NCAA Division I Women's Swimming Championship, Iszac Henig, a transgender man, exchanged wins with Lia Thomas, a transgender woman (both pictured)?
  • Content: Definitely interesting, supported by the source, and neutral. Will probably be interesting to trolls too, so keep an eye out when this hits the front page.
• Other:
  • QPQ: Verified.
  • Images: Instagram page for the photo does in fact say it's CC licensed.

Overall: Good to go unless anyone wants to improve on ALT1. Apocheir (talk) 01:08, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Will ask Henig what terminology he prefers, I don't have a contact with Thomas. I am reluctant to use the words "exchanged wins" rather than "alternated", because "exchanged" has an implication of it being voluntary, and you'll see there was actually an accusation that Thomas let Henig win the first time, which I don't want to endorse by implication. --GRuban (talk) 19:08, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

@Apocheir and Newimpartial: Henig responded:

I don't mind "ftm" (and I'm not sure exactly what the 'up-to-date' terminology is) but it could be worth cutting from the article because it does note in the next line down that I was assigned female at birth. Not sure about Lia's preference. I can shoot her a text.

What he says about "the next line down" is the first section as opposed to the lede. The lede is supposed to summarize the article, so it does need to be there, however it is phrased. Also pinging User:Newimpartial in case they do know what the up-to-date terminology is. --GRuban (talk) 19:12, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

@Apocheir and Newimpartial: Henig writes again!

Hey George, Heard back from Lia and wanted to follow up. She said, "I find “male-to-female” to be a little clunky. I’d say just use “trans woman” since that’s how I would describe myself. Also, if they can change it I spell my middle name 'Kathryn.'"

Henig doesn't say explicitly he prefers that terminology, but also doesn't say he objects, so I think we can assume he at least approves. Also, if nothing else, it's shorter. So I'll rephrase that in the article, and in this proposed hook:

• ALT2: ... that trans man Iszac Henig alternated wins against trans woman Lia Thomas (both pictured) on the way to the 2022 NCAA Division I Women's Swimming Championship?

As for the middle name in our article Lia Thomas, of course an email from her via Henig via me is pretty much the opposite of a reliable source that we can cite, but I will be digging around to see if there is a source that we can use for "Kathryn", and if so will do that. --GRuban (talk) 15:03, 17 January 2023 (UTC)