Talk:Ishrat Jahan (lawyer)

This article was nominated for deletion on 9 April 2021. The result of the discussion was keep.

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On 4 February 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from Ishrat Jahan to Ishrat Jahan (politician). The result of the discussion was moved to Ishrat Jahan (lawyer).

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedy deleted as an attack or a negative unsourced biography of a living person, because the person is notable due to the event of the protests. Further, the use of the UAPA law against the individual is of significance in India. Several references have been cited. The person is also a former politician and had a prominent role in the series of protests that are wiki linked. This is a good faith attempt and not attack as claimed. Thanks Vikram Vincent 18:49, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have created pages for a few people who have been detained under the UAPA law like Stan Swamy, Vernon Gonsalves and now Ishrath Jahan. Also please have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Activities_(Prevention)_Act#Notable_arrests_made_under_the_Act Vikram Vincent 18:58, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This subject is notable for this event https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizenship_Amendment_Act_protests Vikram Vincent 18:59, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ishrath is similar to Safoora Zargar in that both became notable due to the anti-CAA protests and their subsequent arrests. Vikram Vincent 19:02, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

some notes

Interreligious marriage as her husband is a Hindu and she is Muslim. She was elected as a councillor in 2012. https://m.thewire.in/article/rights/in-the-middle-of-modis-uapa-dragnet-a-wedding-and-some-fighting-spirit Vikram Vincent 19:52, 29 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Ishrath vs Ishrat

I note that both spellings are supported by secondary sources. How do we choose one over the other? Vikram Vincent 05:04, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 February 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is consensus on the first request, however to (lawyer) descriptor. On the second request, there is a rough consensus to move. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 17:01, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

– Both titles are ambiguous. The first title is about a politician/advocate/activist who has been accused in several legal cases, so "Ishrat Jahan case" could describe one or more of those cases. But the other title is about a different person who was also called Ishrat Jahan, who is actually much better known. The "case" article gets more than 3× the number of monthly page views as the article about the attorney. Aside from one article being much more popular, the pattern of rising and falling in the page view counts of the two articles track each other very closely even though they are basically about completely unrelated subjects. The only thing that could explain this is that people are getting confused and sometimes looking at the wrong article when they seek information about these subjects. (There is also Ishrat Jahan Chaity, but that one seems like less of a source of potential confusion.) —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 03:08, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I think "Ishrat Jahan encounter case" may be a more descriptive title based on the contents of the article. "Ishrat Jahan encounter case" is also used by many major news outlets, e.g. Indian Express, Hindustan Times, NDTV, Times of India, The Quint, Zee News; some refer to the "Ishrat Jahan case", e.g. The Hindu, The Quint (uses both), Business Standard. The Hindu coverage includes, "Ishrat Jahan, a 19-year-old woman from Mumbra near Mumbai, was killed along with Javed Shaikh (alias Pranesh Pillai), Amjadali Akbarali Rana and Zeeshan Johar by Gujarat police in an 'encounter' near Ahmedabad", so the inclusion of the word "encounter" in the title seems well-supported. Beccaynr (talk) 03:57, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support 1st, oppose 2nd, and make DAB at base name.--Ortizesp (talk) 04:43, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Can you express some reason for opposing the second suggested renaming? —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 07:55, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Perhaps some other disambiguator, such as "(lawyer)" or "(advocate)" would be better for the first topic. Although she is a former municipal councillor, her career and primary notability seems to be more as an attorney rather than as a politician. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 07:59, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I have been thinking something similar, based on recent reporting - many news sources have referred to her as an 'ex-councillor', e.g. [1], [2], [3], (The Quint begins a feature article with a description of her 2012 win as 'especially unique'), while her business card says 'Advocate' e.g. Al Jazeera (and this March 2022 source refers to her as a 'lawyer'). I think "(lawyer)" is precise and broadly descriptive, and the article currently uses both terms. Beccaynr (talk) 14:31, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Ishrat Jahan → Ishrat Jahan (lawyer) ~~and Ishrat Jahan case → Ishrat Jahan encounter case~~ based on my research and reasoning in my comments above. Beccaynr (talk) 14:35, 4 February 2023 (UTC) - update comment to reflect updated support Beccaynr (talk) 21:03, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the exisiting redirect for 'Ishrat Jahan encounter case' seems to add support for this title as a recognizable and likely search term. Beccaynr (talk) 14:39, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I think the title about the incident involving four people who were killed by police should make it more clear that the case involves people being killed. My proposed title does that, and 'Ishrat Jahan encounter case' does not (at least not to people outside of India). —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:00, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Encounter killing" seems to have a similarly regional understanding, e.g. Encounter killings by police, and this article appears to be largely focused on the related case. Sources that could further expand the article also appear focused on the case related to the killings. What do you think of 'Ishrat Jahan encounter killing case'? This could be a clear and precise title to reflect the contents of the article. Beccaynr (talk) 19:31, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is no separate article about the killing itself, so the article is about both the killing and the legal case(s), and 'Ishrat Jahan encounter killing case' seems a bit overly lengthy to me. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 20:38, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I was also thinking it seemed a bit lengthy. So I am updating my Support to Ishrat Jahan encounter killing as a reasonably descriptive and concise title; the existing redirect and a DAB page can further help readers. Beccaynr (talk) 21:03, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.