Talk:Isabel Waidner

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Musicians

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Musicians.

Women writers Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women writers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of women writers on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Women writersWikipedia:WikiProject Women writersTemplate:WikiProject Women writersWomen writers articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Pronouns

I don't see any mention of Isabel Waidner preferring certain pronouns, nor anything explicit on her/their/his gender self-identification. Imposing unconventional, gendered pronouns on anyone can be as intrusive and unwelcome as not using them. It's the obligation of the editor to justify their choice. It hasn't been done here, so please do. Arminden (talk) 10:25, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Arminden - there is no obligation for the editor to justify anything. Waidner's pronouns are not a matter of editor choice, they are a part of following the MOS:GIDINFO: "singular they/them/their pronouns are appropriate to use in reference to any person who goes by them." A footnote would be necessary if Waidner exclusively used neopronouns, which is not the case here. Kazamzam (talk) 14:49, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kazamzam: Exactly: "who goes by them", your/Wiki's words. Does she? Exclusively or non-exclusively. How would I know it? My crystal ball is in the workshop for the annual checkup. I can't imagine you not getting the point, really. Arminden (talk) 15:13, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Arminden you would know it by reading the article where the pronoun is consistently and exclusively the singular they. If following the MOS is an issue for you, bring it up for an RfC; this subject's talk page is not the correct forum. Kazamzam (talk) 16:00, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kazamzam: That's called circular argumentation: it is because it is. And it's 100% worthless.

If I create a page on, say, Arnold Schwarzenegger (allow for the sake of the discussion that there isn't one yet) and I decide to call him "they", consistently ('cause you used the word as if it were an argument), what does it make him, and what does it make me? Him - non-binary or otherwise non-male? Never. And me? An idiot.

Try to stay rational. Wokeness is no substitute for thinking. So no, unless a reason is given, anyone calked Isabel is a she. Once the person in case asks for different pronouns, it's our clear obligation to respect that. Logic, Occam's razor, language as a means of communication rather than aggression against it, common sense, call it as you like. And you offering a source is called due dilligence.

Keep it simple. Does Waidner explicitely accept (I'm not even saying: asking for) non-binary pronouns? If yes, I'll disappear like smoke in the wind. If not, I'll go ahead and amend the article. Arminden (talk) 19:27, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.instagram.com/isabelwaidner/ ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 19:37, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1) I'm not on Insta. What I see when I click on the link is a lot of photos.

2) It wouldn't matter anyway: the info needs to be inside the article. It's the most basic principle ever, why are we still wasting time here please? Arminden (talk) 19:52, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"Waidner is nonbinary. [ref: Galluscio, Erica, etc.]"

DONE! It wasn't hard at all, was it? Bye, Arminden (talk) 19:56, 2 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]