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Talk:Ironstone Vineyards

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In December 2007, a prior Ironstone page was deleted. After discussion with Speedy, this new page is being constructed.

This is a legitimate page because 1. Many wineries are listed in Wikipedia -- see Calavaras County, California and its list of wineries which have Wikipedia pages. 2. Ironstone is the 15th largest winery in the US -- much bigger than those listed above. Its operations have a major impact on its communities and the wine community. 3. The founder of Ironstone is the first to grow varietal wine grapes in the Lodi appellation. 4. The events at Ironstone have a major impact on Calaveras County, one of the poorest counties in California. 5. The gold specimen on display at Ironstone is the world's largest -- some 9 times the size of the second largest sample on Earth.

More will be provided in updates to this page.

Thanks. MikeVdP (talk) 07:04, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

First, that link leads nowhere. Second, I'd like to see some reliable, secondary sources that state all of the above. Are you sure you're not violating WP:COI? — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 07:06, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, my typo -- see Calaveras County, California -- there's the "e" in there! Data and a photo of the gold specimen will also be coming. MikeVdP (talk) 07:25, 23 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What would make this more "encyclopedia" and less "advertisement"? More history? More impact on the economy? This is the biggest winery in the region (by case sales) and the biggest winery visitors' center (by size, number of visitors, number of events), so it's going to have some "advertisement" character by that nature. Ideas welcome! MikeVdP (talk) 20:52, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that the suggestions to improve this page never were implemented. The article reads like an advertisement. Webdeva (talk) 07:18, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

March 2008: Suggestions for improvement

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Hi, I'd noticed when this article was originally deleted when someone doing redlink cleanup scrubbed one of my watchlist pages. Now that its back, I'd like to throw an outsider's encouragement towards having this article fleshed out to be of sustainable quality by Wikipedia standards. I'm disinterested, a Sacramentan who has in the past visited the location on a couple of occasions and am familiar with the facility. I am also a longtime visitor and post part-time resident of Calevaras county.

Some areas of improvement based on my experience of the winery (e.g., what the winery is to me == maybe it'll help your re-write):

1) Tastings -- hardly described as all 2) Aging/process -- what percentage of production happens onsite/offsite? You guys shipping juice from Lodi? Grapes? Is all the wine aging being done in the caves, what? 3) A map of the concert layout put into the public domain showing grass layout, smoking areas, typical vend/equipment positions would be informational to those from outside the area and folks becoming aquainted with the place for the first time. Perhaps a map of the facility at large.

I feel that this subject meets the criteria for notability as it is a common brand throughout Northern California, a rather large geographic and cultural area. The Murphys's wine "scene" from our POV is amongst the top three (Sonoma/Napa area being No.1, Murphys vying with Amador County for the No. 2 spot, this being completely relative and non-referential). Suffice it to be said that the Murphy's area is rather popular with tourists, regularly packing them in for a weekend draw and I feel that Ironstone is a fairly large anchor in that destination. They are, I believe, the Calaveras region's only regular event venue, both Bear Valley and the fairgrounds competing in that regard to a lesser extent. I *believe* they are the biggest guys in terms of visitor facility, visitor traffic and wine production of anyone else up in that area. Ironstone (as noted in the article) is also home to the Alhambra Movie theater's organ. This is mentioned elsewhere but the Alhambra was a notable location in Sacramento with its own article and of such historic measure to be included as a feature in the California History Museum. As this organ was both the soul and sole remains of a culturally significant location for those living in the Sacramento area in the days since, Ironstone deserves some recognition as its modern curator. Arguably, we're not just talking about a place that makes and sells wine on some hillside in the California gold country.

This is going to be an uphill battle for whomever takes it over given Wikipedia's rather capricious rules regarding deletion of articles relating to commercial enterprizes and I wanted to wish you luck and give you guys some ideas -- sadly Ironstone is -not- well documented as a heavy subject, the reputable record mostly having devoted itself to travel articles, etc. For example, I found the claim that the Kautz family were the first cultivars of chardonnay difficult to believe without a solid reference and found the "first to plant...other varietals" also difficult to swallow. WHAT varietals? Driven to prove/disprove/clarify, I encountered the difficult uphill battle any editor has here. It is unfortunate that the deletion process for such articles as this doesn't allow a review process during which we might shape future expectations for the article and attempt to redeem them before they are removed.

Sadly these rules make me not really want to exert too much effort in this arena and I'm rather disappointed there isn't a less heavy-handed avenue that can/should be taken when an article's subject might be both commercial AND notable and its the article itself that is failing in some way.Ogre lawless (talk) 10:16, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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